Underfeed vs overfeed

[cmvcarlsson]

I am happy to share my observations, and philosophies, accumulated from keeping and feeding tarantulas in re feeding frequency.

If you read no further; less is more when it comes to feeding tarantulas.

Tarantulas are wild animals, they are not domesticated, and like most animals are opportunistic eaters. Animals in real life don't eat on a schedule like we do, and certainly not every day. Your tarantula will let you know when it's hungry, you just need to know the signs.

The pet industry is a 20 billion dollar a year juggernaut, and based on inventive and emotional marketing, we've been told our whole lives that our pets need to eat on a recurring schedule just like us. The more often they eat, the more money Big Pet makes. There are more overweight pets in first world countries like America and England than any other country in the world.

If you would randomly feed your dog and cat versus feeding them on a once to twice a day schedule, they would be healthier, live longer and not be "dying to eat" by X-o' clock every day. We have trained our animals to be as dependent on food as we are on their success. It's an emotional connection for us and we feel successful, and responsible, when we "meet" our animals needs. The needs that Big Pet tells us we should be meeting.

Skipping back to tarantulas, it's not unusual for an opportunistic eater to not see a food item for several days, or weeks, depending on their endemic circumstances. As long as you provide water, I guarantee you your tarantula can live for 2 months with no food. I am not intentionally telling you to skip feeding your animals and put them on a whenever you feel like it's schedule, but this is proof that less is often more.

If I forget to feed my slings for a week or two, they're more enthusiastic to receive a food item when I do feed them; however, if I feed them every 3 days they often could care less about the feeder wandering in their enclosure.

Feeding less often has these basic benefits:
1. Your T is much more enthusiastic about eating
2. Unless in premolt, your T is guaranteed to feed and eat the entire meal (if appropriately sized)
3. Your T will put on less weight and take longer in between molt cycles
4. Based on number 3 above, your T will live longer
5. Feeding less often requires you to purchase or maintain fewer feeders, saving you money
6. Feeding less often is a time benefit for you
7. Based on number 6 above, the time you save feeding and cleaning enclosures, due to excessive waste or rotting food items due to overfeeding, will allow you to spend more time with your family, increasing your quality of life
8. Based on points 4 through 7, you will enjoy owning your pets longer, and with less hassle, making the experience more rewarding overall
9. If we all took a page from this book, we would be less obese as a society, too. I guarantee you most of us reading (and writing) this post could afford to miss a meal or two a week and we would all be just fine.

There are often circumstances where people will want to power feed animals to get them to a certain point, or through a certain growth stage, and there's potentially a time and a place for that, too, however on the regular, less is more.

Thank you for all of this advice. Anthropomorphism is truly a bad way to gauge feeding your pet. (think feeding dogs a grain-free diet because our society believes grains and gluten are bad. Now we have a slew of dogs with massive heart issues from a grain-free diet) I was really worried about my sling not wanting to eat after its last molt and I received some advice from this forum not to overthink it. Let my sling do its thing. Sure enough, when I went to check on it today it was out of its burrow and ready to hunt. I just need to learn to trust my little one and feed based on its cues. If it's hanging in its burrow and all covered up, I will let it be. When it opens up the burrow I will take that as a sign it wants to feed. I also think the crickets I am feeding might be too small now that it has molted. We will see as I plan to feed today. It has been almost 2 weeks since it last ate. It's good to know that they can go a bit without feeding.

I have a question though. What is the best choice for food for a t. albo sling? I have only used crickets.

 

[WolfSpider]

Crickets are a hobby staple. Their antennae and jumping motion elicit a strong predatory response. Many keepers choose roaches, since a roach is probably more nutritious and won't harm the T when it is molting. I live in Florida, so the commonly used roaches in the hobby are not allowed here. When your T gets bigger, mealworms, superworms, and store bought hornworms are good feeders. So are moths, but be careful with anything you catch outside--toxicity from chemicals or parasites can be a problem. Happy feeding, friend!

 

[octanejunkie]

I Iave a question though. What is the best choice for food for a t. albo sling? I have only used crickets.

Crickets are a hobby staple. Their antennae and jumping motion elicit a strong predatory response. Many keepers choose roaches, since a roach is probably more nutritious and won't harm the T when it is molting. I live in Florida, so the commonly used roaches in the hobby are not allowed here. When your T gets bigger, mealworms, superworms, and store bought hornworms are good feeders. So are moths, but be careful with anything you catch outside--toxicity from chemicals or parasites can be a problem. Happy feeding, friend!

This ∆∆∆

Here are the most nutritious feeders, in my experience, in descending order. Remember you can gutload* some feeders but not all.

Red runners*
Locust*
Crickets*
Dubia*
Hornworms
Silkworms
Mealworms
Wax worms
Fruitflies

There are obviously many others but these are the most readily available, commercially, that you can get consistently, and free of pesticides.

It is recommended by many to crush the heads of dubia and mealworms to keep them from burrowing, and in some cases, from potentially injuring your T.

 

[MBullock]

Thank you for all of this advice. Anthropomorphism is truly a bad way to gauge feeding your pet. (think feeding dogs a grain-free diet because our society believes grains and gluten are bad. Now we have a slew of dogs with massive heart issues from a grain-free diet) I was really worried about my sling not wanting to eat after its last molt and I received some advice from this forum not to overthink it. Let my sling do its thing. Sure enough, when I went to check on it today it was out of its burrow and ready to hunt. I just need to learn to trust my little one and feed based on its cues. If it's hanging in its burrow and all covered up, I will let it be. When it opens up the burrow I will take that as a sign it wants to feed. I also think the crickets I am feeding might be too small now that it has molted. We will see as I plan to feed today. It has been almost 2 weeks since it last ate. It's good to know that they can go a bit without feeding.

I have a question though. What is the best choice for food for a t. albo sling? I have only used crickets.

Lean fresh meats will always be the best possible choice. much like you say, dogs cannot be anthropomorphized and unlike humans, they create their own vitamin-C, they also get all the folic acid (generally) they need from the aforementioned fresh lean meat. most of those dogs have been suffering from sedentary lifestyles and eating alot of salty foods.

By that logic, the grey wolf would've died out eons ago because they evolved during the ice age, when nothing but meat was available, generally.. carbs here and there are okay but remember that carbs do turn into glucose, and in domestic dogs of whom live sedentary lives sitting at the couch watching tv with master, this can easily turn into diabetes, and as a consequence, heart-disease.

I wouldnt listen to the FDA about dog nutrition when they hypocritically allow high fructose corn syrup to be in our children's cereals, which disrupts the endocrine system severely...

 

[Phototoxin]

I skipped my Ts last week (thursday is my feeding day) and the were out and about a little more (on the hunt?) so I fed them yesterday instead, so maybe I'll feed 2/3 weeks

 

[Sbirtell1]

I am happy to share my observations, and philosophies, accumulated from keeping and feeding tarantulas in re feeding frequency.

If you read no further; less is more when it comes to feeding tarantulas.

Tarantulas are wild animals, they are not domesticated, and like most animals are opportunistic eaters. Animals in real life don't eat on a schedule like we do, and certainly not every day. Your tarantula will let you know when it's hungry, you just need to know the signs.

The pet industry is a 20 billion dollar a year juggernaut, and based on inventive and emotional marketing, we've been told our whole lives that our pets need to eat on a recurring schedule just like us. The more often they eat, the more money Big Pet makes. There are more overweight pets in first world countries like America and England than any other country in the world.

If you would randomly feed your dog and cat versus feeding them on a once to twice a day schedule, they would be healthier, live longer and not be "dying to eat" by X-o' clock every day. We have trained our animals to be as dependent on food as we are on their success. It's an emotional connection for us and we feel successful, and responsible, when we "meet" our animals needs. The needs that Big Pet tells us we should be meeting.

Skipping back to tarantulas, it's not unusual for an opportunistic eater to not see a food item for several days, or weeks, depending on their endemic circumstances. As long as you provide water, I guarantee you your tarantula can live for 2 months with no food. I am not intentionally telling you to skip feeding your animals and put them on a whenever you feel like it's schedule, but this is proof that less is often more.

If I forget to feed my slings for a week or two, they're more enthusiastic to receive a food item when I do feed them; however, if I feed them every 3 days they often could care less about the feeder wandering in their enclosure.

Feeding less often has these basic benefits:
1. Your T is much more enthusiastic about eating
2. Unless in premolt, your T is guaranteed to feed and eat the entire meal (if appropriately sized)
3. Your T will put on less weight and take longer in between molt cycles
4. Based on number 3 above, your T will live longer
5. Feeding less often requires you to purchase or maintain fewer feeders, saving you money
6. Feeding less often is a time benefit for you
7. Based on number 6 above, the time you save feeding and cleaning enclosures, due to excessive waste or rotting food items due to overfeeding, will allow you to spend more time with your family, increasing your quality of life
8. Based on points 4 through 7, you will enjoy owning your pets longer, and with less hassle, making the experience more rewarding overall
9. If we all took a page from this book, we would be less obese as a society, too. I guarantee you most of us reading (and writing) this post could afford to miss a meal or two a week and we would all be just fine.

There are often circumstances where people will want to power feed animals to get them to a certain point, or through a certain growth stage, and there's potentially a time and a place for that, too, however on the regular, less is more.

Love this! Makes total sense too. Question… is there any aggression linked to farther spaced feeding? I know I spoke to someone who said just make sure you feed the T before you hold them, since they might think your fingers are food. I don’t plan on holding it all the time, but maybe 1-2x a week. I definitely do want it to confuse my hands for food! Lol

 

[DustyD]

To hold or not to hold, that is a debated question. Setting that aside, it seems logical that you may want to take hunger out of the equation when trying to handle tarantulas, but I don't know first hand. My tarantulas are spiderlings to juvies and still skittish. As such I don't handle them.

At rehousing time, I am just grateful that they are relatively slower moving ( G. rosea, pulchra, pulchripes) species as my reflexes are usually along the lines of "deer caught in headlights."

 

[Sbirtell1]

To hold or not to hold, that is a debated question. Setting that aside, it seems logical that you may want to take hunger out of the equation when trying to handle tarantulas, but I don't know first hand. My tarantulas are spiderlings to juvies and still skittish. As such I don't handle them.

At rehousing time, I am just grateful that they are relatively slower moving ( G. rosea, pulchra, pulchripes) species as my reflexes are usually along the lines of "deer caught in headlights."

 

[Sbirtell1]

Hey Dusty, is it ok to hold them occasionally? I just watched Robbiestalkings video about rehousing. And I’m the comment section it was mentioned that they are not to be held, but kept more as viewing pleasure? It’s that will all species or just some of them?

 

[DustyD]

It comes down to a personal decision.

I am sure there are some species you should not handle at all. For other species with milder temperaments, you have to decide.

Having said that, I think the needs of the spider should outweigh the wants/needs of the human.


There have been many times that I have wanted to handle my Ts, but concern of them escaping, falling, getting injured or getting lost in my bedroom have outweighed my urges to handle them.

So I talk to them instead. Encouraging them not to overturn their water dish again. Telling them how good they look. Asking them why they did what they just did. Trying to assure them that the shadow, bumping vibrations and air movement above them is no danger, just me trying to care for them.

There are some who are absolutely dead set against unnecessary handling and others more accepting. I think it is human nature, curiosity, to want to touch and hold. Should mine become more docile/ mellower, I may very well try to handle them.

It's up to you.

 

[Sbirtell1]

It comes down to a personal decision.

I am sure there are some species you should not handle at all. For other species with milder temperaments, you have to decide.

Having said that, I think the needs of the spider should outweigh the wants/needs of the human.


There have been many times that I have wanted to handle my Ts, but concern of them escaping, falling, getting injured or getting lost in my bedroom have outweighed my urges to handle them.

So I talk to them instead. Encouraging them not to overturn their water dish again. Telling them how good they look. Asking them why they did what they just did. Trying to assure them that the shadow, bumping vibrations and air movement above them is no danger, just me trying to care for them.

There are some who are absolutely dead set against unnecessary handling and others more accepting. I think it is human nature, curiosity, to want to touch and hold. Should mine become more docile/ mellower, I may very well try to handle them.

It's up to you.

Makes sense. I definitely don’t want to make my baby feel uncomfortable. I would like to hold him on occasion though. But if he/she is just going to be for viewing pleasure. So be it. I haven’t had any issues as of yet. I’ve only held him twice for a couple minutes since I got him a couple weeks ago. Just letting him do his own thing. Which isn’t much . Just doing what they do best… relax and chill in one spot… lol

 

[octanejunkie]

Love this! Makes total sense too. Question… is there any aggression linked to farther spaced feeding? I know I spoke to someone who said just make sure you feed the T before you hold them, since they might think your fingers are food. I don’t plan on holding it all the time, but maybe 1-2x a week. I definitely do want it to confuse my hands for food! Lol

Well, the potential for bites is not just food-related, but a tarantulas are opportunistic feeders and as such, my be inclined to see what those big pink worms are lol but this begs the bigger question of "to handle or not to handle" which has been discussed ad infinitum all over the internet. Here is what I have to say about that, from another thread, if it's my opinion you seek:

Question about getting another T

So I figured I'd ask the Forum's input on this. I've had my first and only tarantula (mature male Tliltocatl albopilosus) for 4 months. Recently I've been considering the possibility of adopting another T in the future (still no idea when/if that would even happen yet). I've been thinking a lot...

www.tarantulaforum.com

Hey Dusty, is it ok to hold them occasionally? I just watched Robbiestalkings video about rehousing. And I’m the comment section it was mentioned that they are not to be held, but kept more as viewing pleasure? It’s that will all species or just some of them?

Yeah, about that... here is what Robbie said after "the incident"

Best way too be, loads of people will argue that handling is fine, but I believe they should be observational pets (like fish) it's not worth the risk.

In the end, wisdom prevails; otherwise, there's always Darwinism

 

[Sbirtell1]

Well, the potential for bites is not just food-related, but a tarantulas are opportunistic feeders and as such, my be inclined to see what those big pink worms are lol but this begs the bigger question of "to handle or not to handle" which has been discussed ad infinitum all over the internet. Here is what I have to say about that, from another thread, if it's my opinion you seek:

Question about getting another T

So I figured I'd ask the Forum's input on this. I've had my first and only tarantula (mature male Tliltocatl albopilosus) for 4 months. Recently I've been considering the possibility of adopting another T in the future (still no idea when/if that would even happen yet). I've been thinking a lot...

www.tarantulaforum.com

Yeah, about that... here is what Robbie said after "the incident"

In the end, wisdom prevails; otherwise, there's always Darwinism

Yeah I know, I mentioned in the comment to Dusty what he said. Do you hold any of yours octanejunkie?

 

[DustyD]

I have read that the species Homeoma chilense (formerly Euathlus sp. Red the Chilean dwarf flame tarantula) is very active and "curious" and it seems that some of its owners do indulge in holding those. But I would think those concerns about handling still apply.

 

[Aracnoenthusiast]

I tend to feed my ts once a month, offering a fairly large prey item. My ts always eat unless in pre molt. And seem healthy and happy otherwise

 

[octanejunkie]

I tend to feed my ts once a month, offering a fairly large prey item. My ts always eat unless in pre molt. And seem healthy and happy otherwise

I've staggered my crew with monthly feedings by the week, so I feed 25% of the collection each week and get a week off every quarter

 

[I just need all the T's]

Here is my current to date experience with raising from a sling a T.Vagan who has always been a good water. It molted June 1st of this year. Perfect molt absolutely beautiful spider.
I waited 15 days before feeding still was a little. Since then I've fed more frequently but nothing huge just increase on feeding.
Well she it whatever got plump last week it refused to eat and I actually had cut back a whole week prior because of who big her abdomen was. Yesterday I was checking on it and was blown away at the size of her abdomen that's when I noticed it had molted.
My whole point is,I feel like it would looked in way better shape had I not been feeding it imo what is more heavy than I should and had her so plump.
So 10 15 days from now when I feel she's totally hardened up I'm going back to a less frequent cycle if that makes sense. I'm sure there some huge various other things different in regards to adults or sub adults and serious breeders I'm more specifically talking about slings and keeping healthy spiders in general for most keepers or new to it.
Just my
05 cents worth of what I've felt I've learned so far. Definitely feels like there is alot to be thought about of everything the op has stated.

 

[I just need all the T's]

Eater not water. Not enough coffee yet to find the edit button

 

[Kevin Levites]

I like your thinking.

Obesity is a killer . . . whether in people or in domestic animals.

I agree that tarantulas can become obese, as they don't have to flee from predators, or store body fat for hibernation while in captivity.

Even so, I have--in the past--had a tendency to overfeed tarantulas as I was always concerned that they would starve to death when they went on periodic fasts. I always worried that I did (or did not) do something detrimental to their care.

My last tarantula was a Mexican Redknee that died after about 5 years. It was probably a male (I thought I saw hooks on the pedipalps), but I still felt guilty.