Why we use "mechanical moms" and ICU units!!!

[entomology]

Am so tired talking to planks!!!! Pls grow a brain.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Sorry, was talking to Raymond Gerber.
I'll write it once again. All I am saying is that there are others ways to breed tarantulas other than using a mechanical mom.
My opinion is: there are weaker individuals in every sac and these would naturally get picked off by siblings. Same as there are stronger individuals that have different traits which forces the species to evolve. They are both from the same sac, but they have different characteristics that make them unique, hence evolution of the species. My feeling is that I like to leave the slings to fend for themselves so that I only get the strongest out plus it helps when observing the interaction between the mother and the offspring.
Once again, I have no hassle with other people doing things differently, just don't go around proclaiming that if you don't use a mechanical mom, you are backwards or regressing. There are many ways to get to a similar outcome, and everyone has their own feelings towards it, just respect other peoples views without getting personal.
See, no fighting, just different opinions.

 

[entomology]

Yes everyone has their own way of doing things and when it comes to "evolution" you refer to. I must correct u once again that is an adaptation to environmental changes that take place over thousands of years and for " wild" specimens only not captive.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

No one said if you don't again don't use it, you aren't progressing. It was said that in every field of science progression occurs, different ways shapes and forms. If you only believe in one way, isn't that stagnating ? Which means staying in one place, where progress means moving forward like new things etc. So if you stagnate, its your choice try the new if its not for you fine. To lay judgment one needs a view on both sides, or are opinions drawn one sided ? As far as I have seen, all studies opinions are drawn from applying opposites to conclude on the best.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

I just read all my posts again, and not once did I say that using mechanical moms is the wrong way to go. All I said was that I prefer to do it differently and it works too. And if something works, why change it if it was successful.
Go back and read the thread again, and look at it objectively.
Also Raymond, no need to get insulting.

 

[entomology]

Riaan Lambrechts has never used a mechanical mom here so don't know why he is talking about the subject as he has no experience operating one?!!! Yes Martin we progress forward with science and don't remain stagnant always discovering better ways if animal husbandry etc. it is futile as mentioned before as Riaan Lambrechts is only a hobbiest with tarantulas and knows absolutely nothing about animal behavior nor husbandry or ethical procedures as he is not a nature conservator he works most likely behind a desk and not with animals like I do every day. So pay no more attention as he is an attention seeker.

 

[entomology]

Then stay off my threads and I'll stay off yours as we do not have the same mindset obvious

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

I believe in leaving the sac with the female as they have somehow managed to do this for centuries without our help. I have also personally had good success leaving the sacs with the females. If the conditions were good enough to drop they will be good enough to hatch in the same conditions. Also by leaving the sac with the female till 2nd instar it gives the EWL and 1st instars a chance to pick off the weaklings. I think by pulling all the weaklings through we are weakening the gene pool.


By the above first statement, is that not stating that's it's not a good idea ? If being a bad idea, is that then not saying its the wrong way to go ? All I am saying is, to objectively state that its going to pull weak spiders through and dilute the gene pool facts have to be given. I have shown the contradiction in those statements with ease, we do exactly that each and every day by captive specimens being cared for. In reality how many of our collections would have survived in the wild ? How many would have been dead, no offspring at all ? We intervene each and every day, he has just gone and progressed tarantula care how is this truly bad objectively speaking ? He has done what I would love to try, I want to learn I've used the natural way now maybe try his way. We all have used icu or incubators at a stage. Sorry but its exactly the same, we all have tried new ways to care for our tarantulas. Trying to better the hobby, so all I ask is be objective.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Riaan Lambrechts has never used a mechanical mom here so don't know why he is talking about the subject as he has no experience operating one?!!! Yes Martin we progress forward with science and don't remain stagnant always discovering better ways if animal husbandry etc. it is futile as mentioned before as Riaan Lambrechts is only a hobbiest with tarantulas and knows absolutely nothing about animal behavior nor husbandry or ethical procedures as he is not a nature conservator he works most likely behind a desk and not with animals like I do every day. So pay no more attention as he is an attention seeker.

Again, no need to get personal and insulting...
I have quite a bit of experience with tarantula husbandry, behavior and consider myself very ethical. Have not had one complaint before from anyone regarding my ethics.
Just because I don't work with animals and work behind a desk everyday doesn't mean that my opinion is not important and that I don't know anything about tarantulas. There are many hobbyists that have normal day jobs and still make very important discoveries and add a lot of value to the hobby.
Oh, my name is Ruan by the way.

 

[entomology]

Yes he just contradicted his statement there Martin. The gene pool is the same whether strong or weak the gene pool is the same lol lol the only reason they eat each other is because of lack of food, too many numbers and mom. And confined space. One gene pool and he states removing he weaker and that's what it is resulting in dehydration he assumes it's genetics that's what causes slings to become weak and lethargic. I think he must do some reading.... Seriously

 

[entomology]

Riaan can u justify breeding hybrids ethical??? Please man get real!!!!

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Riaan can u justify breeding hybrids ethical??? Please man get real!!!!

If it is for research and the specimens stay with me, yes.
We are taking DNA samples from parents and seeing which traits are passed on to the offspring. I am trying to prove that what we have in the hobby regarding this species is possibly a natural or man made hybrid. Very interesting work actually.
The original sac was reduced down to a manageable handful for study, and the specimens are to stay with me until they get put into alcohol.

 

[entomology]

U mean DNA strains . U are not a field researcher so specimens are not permitted to be kept in a private home, but a secure quarantine facility especially if it's research and this I know.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

U mean DNA strains . U are not a field researcher so specimens are not permitted to be kept in a private home, but a secure quarantine facility especially if it's research and this I know.

Which specimens are not allowed to be kept at my house? There is actually a huge amount of DNA samples that have been collected by hobbyists for DNA barcoding at the moment. Tarantulas.co.za admin were working on it. They were collecting males of all the hobby species to do barcoding. I'm working on something similar, so see, nothing unethical about keeping a few hybrids. They are not in the hobby and no one is affected by them. I guarantee that anyone with some of the common genera (Hysterocrates, Lasiodora, Avicularia, etc) in the hobby have a few accidental hybrids. But that I covered in the other thread. Go have a look.

 

[entomology]

Hybrids are euthanized because they are not permitted and can be seen as a problematic species. Only scientists can take smears and samples not a hobbiest.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Hybrids are euthanized because they are not permitted and can be seen as a problematic species. Only scientists can take smears and samples not a hobbiest.

But what about all the accidental hybrids that most people have from those genera? They are already exotic, so already have the potential to be problematic. I have someone that collects the dead specimens or else one of their legs for samples. Going to be great once we have a DNA barcode for all the species. Hopefully stop accidental hybridization.

 

[entomology]

Di-oxy-ribo-Nucleic- AcidDeoxyribose nucleic acidsdeoxy ribo nucleic ...DNA for u is for the sole use of preventing related pairs for breeding in future that's why all zoos "run" of ARKS systems to prevent this as inbreeding has many side effects. Hub radioing is man made not natural unless man has interfered in nature once again. The topic was about mechanical moms and their importance I think we have both made our points and opinions and leave it at that now. We have gone way off the topic.

 

[entomology]

Hybrids are man made

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Hybrids are man made

There are natural ones too potentially.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Di-oxy-ribo-Nucleic- AcidDeoxyribose nucleic acidsdeoxy ribo nucleic ...DNA for u

Deoxyribonucleic acid...