Why we use "mechanical moms" and ICU units!!!

[Ceratogyrus]

I know Hendrik well enough and was just using the example that mechanical mom is not the only way.
I am a naturalist and my experience is more to do with behavior when it comes to tarantulas. We just have 2 different interests when it comes to tarantulas and there is space in the hobby for both approaches. With success in around 20 different tarantula species, lots of them firsts in the hobby in SA, I think I speak from experience.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

Uhm 'we just have 2 different interests when it comes to the tarantulas and there is space in the hobby for both approaches' Pretty weird for a person which on page one,couldn't wait to take apart the mechanical mom approach. Also again, the reason states aren't validated once in this thread
- gene pool dilution
Okay human intervention making sure more survive dilutes a gene pool,must be a new genetic science view.
- using a mechanical mom isn't natural
Neither is captive specimens in an artificial environment, with artificial plants hides etc.
- Helping the weaker survive
We do this unknowingly since we care for T's from birth either with incubators or icu enclosures, feeding and supplying water
- keeping it natural
Okay we are all so wrong then, keeping it natural, everyone start setting your T's free in their original habitats get those plane tickets ready.

So in the end I can't see the difference, just because something is new its not evil.

 

[entomology]

But tou have a bad name for hybrids in S. A !!!!! I've heard this by different ppl. I dnt condone to hybrids nor inbreeding and I personally know Hendrik too and he uses icu tubs!!! If ur trying to " blow smoke up ur own ass it's not working because anyone can breed any tarantula if their artificial vivarium is "rigged" for comfort and proper hear and temp for the different species housed.

 

[entomology]

But you

 

[entomology]

Without science why do we have hospitals as everything is artificial and man made. Just imagine we left ppl in hospitals without care what the consequences would be lol

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

Sorry sir, I'm a naturalist your dying but don't worry nature will be on duty at 8am.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

I am not trying to take him apart for using a mechanical mom just saying that that is not the only way. Why do I have a bad name for hybrids? I have a few but they all stay in my house. Just saying that out of the 3 of us I have the most experience so I can speak from experience. What do you mean by "but you"?

 

[Ceratogyrus]

And what do hybrids have to do with mechanical mom's by the way?
No need to get personal or insulting either. You have a bad name but you don't see me bringing it up. We are all adults here so we should be able to have a decent discussion.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

Err the most experience ? Mmm, vanity such a bad bad thing. If you have forgotten where you came from, and see yourself as better equipped or experienced I feel sorry for you. Since in all the claims made, none was validated with common sense facts. Cerat, sad to say when you feel you know so much you aren't open to new things. You can't progress with such an attitude at all, you will be stuck in your own views and those alone. See even being smart is artificial, since you've been taught but thinking you can't be taught more that's a regress. The people you look up to learn something each day, they don't adopt an attitude of I have more experience so your views don't matter. Whooha I'm glad to learn each day, I never want to be on a level where I think I know it all. I'm grounded, so if I ever fall it wouldn't be far.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Why you so aggressive? Have a dop and chill. I said we have different theories. Both work and neither are better than the other. It has worked for me and many others.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

Lmao, uhm I'm quite okay. Don't confuse a straight reply with aggressive behavior, you don't actually know what aggressive is mmm. I'm quite worried being able to distinguish normal from aggressive or just straight forward replies via a screen, let me just reply as you do and not determine aggressive behaviors via LCD screens.

 

[entomology]

Very arrogant attitude to have I in fact I have 20 years of breeding so many species so I think I have more "pull"here sorry bud. This one u lose hands down.

 

[entomology]

Martin. Please post that thread of Ceratogyrus on him admitting proudly to the breeding of hybrids?!! Please ?

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

And what do hybrids have to do with mechanical mom's by the way? 
No need to get personal or insulting either. You have a bad name but you don't see me bringing it up. We are all adults here so we should be able to have a decent discussion.


I'm not being insulting, if I was I'd post your view on hybrids you had in our discussions on another thread. That's detrimental to the gene pool, you even back crossed a hybrid what you've done could be more. Didn't see me try to take it further just because of my view of it.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

Also you saying someone has a bad name ? Wow you make it personal and now you want to play mother Theresa, sheesh haha. Only time I see actual posts is when you try and point out negativity, you could have left all this so the members could decide what they like. They all use natural so this is new a mechanical mom, so him explaining his method is new.

 

[entomology]

Ok there we go now the "experienced" breeder made the gravest error and made the biggest mistake ever. It's people like that that breed hybrids for example: lions with tigers, leopards with jaguars it was done many years ago for entertainment in zoos and was stopped by conservationists as it is an abomination ."We"as conservationists have NO Time for "people" like that who cross breed and go against the ethical guidelines of conservation ethics!!! Wow that is the worst offense one can do and that is why conservationists are there to enforce the law and now Gauteng are in big trouble because of all this unethical practice in the hobby and ppl just thinking they can do as they please without thinking if the consequences and repercussions thereafter!!! Pathetic!!!!!!!

 

[Ceratogyrus]

I wish I could explain the whole reason for producing hybrids, but first need to get results out to prove my theory. Still not sure what my hybrids have to do with mechanical mom's or why they affect you guys at all. Like I said in the other thread, how do you know any of your specimens are pure Martin? Have you checked any of the description papers after I spoke to all the experts in the species you were referring to.
Breeding a tarantula is very different to breeding the other species by the way, so you can take a step back.
I have had discussions like this with Raymond Gerber before and unfortunately every time I ask a few interesting questions, he resorts to insults. Limits good discussions, but suppose I shouldn't have expected anything different this time.
Oh well, hopefully people reading this thread realise that you don't need a mechanical mom to breed tarantulas and that there is more than just one way to do things.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

You should specify who needs to take a step back, I have interest in the way the mechanical mom works. I have never used it, only the natural mom. I have not looked at this narrow mindedly, I like to learn since learning is what's normal in anything we do. You came out stating the negative points according to you, which I can't wrap my mind around since you haven't tried this before or am I wrong in assuming that ? You stated that it dilutes the gene pool, and that its not the natural course of nature. Which I've pointed out as a fellow forum member doesn't make sense, since we intervene each and every day making possible weak tarantulas survive using artificial surroundings for our pets. We even give them bred feeders, using all these things and simple logic him using the mechanical mom making survival rates higher how is it worse than us taking over natures work and keeping them captive bred etc. Also to go back to the diluting, its not its intervention the genes they have are exactly the same as their siblings which carry the same genes. So if genes are to blame, even the stronger ones theoretically carry them which might be passed on to a later generation ? That's in theory believing genetics causes the weaker to be weak, when actual fact its just circumstances or roll of the dice. We all intervene, so let's like you've said all have our own views BUT LOOK OBJECTIVELY.

 

[entomology]

Firstly there is no reasoning behind producing any hybrid as it's against nature and should not occur at all POINT!!! You are not a environmental or field researcher so your theories are fruitless!!! And why did Hendrik come up in the thread of mechanical mom too so ask yourself that same stupid questions u persistently ask!! Riaan Lambrechts u are a persistent parasite hence u banned from other sites due to arrogance and lack of communication skills. You're under the " illusion" u know it all, but u don't!!!! You have never asked myself not one intelligent question and if one arose I would respond, but because it has no purpose or value I see no fit to answer @ stupid questions!! Ur a disgrace to the hobby breeding hybrids so breed ur tarantulas in the cupboards or wherever and leave the breeding to people open minded and willing to learn in these threads not argue. If you have not realized by now almost all breeders use make shift temporary ICU units then u are just stubborn and arrogant. Learn from others and stop trying to blow smoke up your own ass as it does not impress anyone !!! Mechanical moms work for many and increase survival rates. U do ur thing and leave science to the future people in the hobby.

 

[entomology]

For those interested here is Genio mechanical mom and it's a masterpiece !! Jealousy is what it boils down too.