The threat to the First Amendment.

[LC72uk]

Ha! You missed the boat LC, you should be in Texas, harassing rattlers. I hadn't known all that about the royals..interesting.

The Generation of people that were real Royalists and Royal Lovers have long passed on . Today`s Generation of people see the Royal Family for what they really are.
The upper classes of England look down on people who are on unemployment or Disability/Welfare as they think they are a burden and a drain on society , yet the Royal Family live like this everyday at the Tax Payers expenses . They are the biggest Parasites of them all.

 

[ilovebrachys]

The Generation of people that were real Royalists and Royal Lovers have long passed on . Today`s Generation of people see the Royal Family for what they really are.
The upper classes of England look down on people who are on unemployment or Disability/Welfare as they think they are a burden and a drain on society , yet the Royal Family live like this everyday at the Tax Payers expenses . They are the biggest Parasites of them all.

Well said @LC72uk it makes you sick to see them taking what they want when they want and that's perfectly fine by them-for example Prince harry and megan markle spending millions on doing up their house(also 'given to them' by the queen!) for the new baby when it arrives...in the meantime born and bred british people are homeless and using food banks to survive-its disgusting

 

[LC72uk]

Well said @LC72uk it makes you sick to see them taking what they want when they want and that's perfectly fine by them-for example Prince harry and megan markle spending millions on doing up their house(also 'given to them' by the queen!) for the new baby when it arrives...in the meantime born and bred british people are homeless and using food banks to survive-its disgusting

Ahh yes the Royal Children of William I think they are named Poncy, Takey, Grabbie and now with Harry`s one on the way soon to be named Spongy .
Private Schools . lavish houses given to them by the queen all paid for by US and the rest of the poor Bastards in this world. Scum the lot of them.

 

[Tnoob]

Sorry, but the Royal Family are hated and despised in the UK. They are seen as Parasites by a vast majority of our own people (I am one of the many).
They serve no purpose what so ever anymore to the UK apart from draining it`s money and resources to keep them in their own lavish lifestyle at the Tax Payers expense.
Treason has been committed in the UK by our very own Prime minister and dear old Liz (queen) has done sweet FA about it. Useless Woman attached to a Parasitic Family.
Our Queen of England refers to the people of the UK as Cretins, scum and Peasants (this has been well documented) , yet there have been many cover ups made for the Royal Family over the years , serious crimes have been committed by them and they have got away with it every time.

So sorry but "god save the queen" No thanks . The UK monarchy should be Abolished . I loath and despise everything they stand for and represent and I would personally like to see them all Hang..

Sarcasm escapes you as well I see.

 

[LC72uk]

Sarcasm escapes you as well I see.

I do understand Sarcasm very well , It`s my favourite .

 

[Tnoob]

Guns don't kill people, sweety. Crazy ass republicans do when we get pissed off.

They can have my 2nd ammendment rights when they pry Mr. Smith from my cold dead fingers.

I don't know about Mr. Smith, but we don't create violence around here, we create art. Violence is a response.

 

[Tortoise Tom]

I'm going to leave a small comment here so I can keep up to date with this thread.

I'm sure I'm "not going to understand" as I'm not American but what is the obsession with your amendments? (Btw they've changed many times). And I personally don't agree with guns being so freely available (my opinion) they cause more issues than they prevent.

Can someone educate me?

Thank you for asking and being polite about it. I will respond in kind.

Much of this is opinion based on flawed human perception and my personal experiences. What is fact is that our Constitutional Amendments have never changed. More have been added along the way, but the originals are still there and have never been changed.

There are many thoughts running through my head regarding how to explain this to you. Its a question that has been asked to many an American by many a Brit, or other Europeans. My career has taken me all over the world, and I've had this conversation with Brits, South Africans, Frenchies, Dutch and a few other nationalities too. There seems to be a perception by many people from your side of the world that the Government must be obeyed. There seems to be this perception that government is good and whatever they say is best for the people. There is a willingness to accept whatever the government dictates to you. I had a conversation with a German about those speeding cameras on the roads. If you drive to fast, it takes your picture and sends you a fine in the mail. I asked him what happens if you don't pay it. He said, "You must pay it". I said, "Yeah, but what if you don't?" He said, "I don't understand. There is no option to not pay it. You have to pay it." I asked him, "What if I am a defiant criminal and I tear up the ticket and throw it away? Then what happens?" By the look on his face, I had blown his mind. He could not conceive of defying the government and not paying the required fine. The ramifications of those kinds of thoughts were clearly very uncomfortable and distressing to him. Here in the States, about 80-90% of those tickets go unpaid. We give them the finger and proclaim, "FU! I ain't payin' !!!

The ideals that you were raised with and that you subscribe to over there (Speaking in general here...) Are the very ideals that we over here decided to literally revolt against. We had a bloody war that we were pretty sure we would lose, because England was the greatest military power in existence at the time, but we would rather be dead than live under what was perceived as King George's tyranny. Let that sink in for a moment. We'd rather be dead than do what your king was telling us to do. To say Americans are defiant, would be a gross understatement. We adhere to the greater principals of right and wrong, vs. the principals of what the current government says is legal or illegal. Our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and our Amendments were and are a monumental and ground breaking concept. The greatest experiment in human freedom the world has ever seen. No longer would a monarchy or ruling government tell the people what the deal was. The PEOPLE would tell the government what the deal was. A system of checks and balances was put into place to make sure that government, as it always does, couldn't grow too powerful and wrest the power to govern away from "the people". Our founding fathers recognized and put in to print the recognition of certain Natural Laws. These Natural Laws say that all men are endowed by their creator will certain unalienable rights. These God given birthrights and not granted by the government and cannot be revoked by any government. Our documents that you think we are "obsessed" about enumerate these rights and explain how the government recognizes and is supposed to protect these rights. Our whole system of government was created in response to and in defiance of your whole system of government. THIS is why our system doesn't make sense to most Brits. Its the reason we separated from you and fought an awful war to do so.

One of these inalienable, irrevocable, God given birth rights, is the right to self defense. Self defense against the common criminal, and self defense against a tyrannical government. "The People" are supposed to be as well armed as the standing government armies, so that if the government leaders order their standing armies to act against the will of the people, the people have the means to fight back. Who are you to tell me what means I am allowed to have to fight back? What gives any government the right to tell me what tools I may use to defend my family? There is no such right. Not in America. For decades our elected "leaders" have been defying their oaths of office to defend our Constitution and its supporting documents, and they've been infringing upon our freedoms and our God given rights. We've allowed this. The current crop of evil-doers is openly and obviously trying to break down what our founding fathers built and replace it with their totalitarian concepts. Over the last few decades, they've gained control over our schools, the entirety of the media, and all levels of local governments. They are brainwashing our kids from an early age and right on through college, using the media to dupe you and about half the people over here, and using our own governments to abuse us and implement their illegal, unconstitutional, nefarious policies. The half of America that isn't duped is a tolerant bunch. We don't want a violent confrontation. We are doing everything possible to avoid violence over these issues, but we are quickly reaching and impasse: They won't stop forcing their ideals on us through any means they can exploit, and ultimately we are not going to accept their ideals, just as we didn't when King George attempted to levy his might against us. To avoid bloodshed "they" have to give up and quit trying to force their flawed ideas upon ur country, which isn't likely since they've been trying and failing since the first world war, OR, we have to accept their will and do what they say, which as you can see from some of the responses here on this very thread is never going to happen.

So there are the broader concepts in general. Now I'd like to speak more philosophically on the concepts of disarming everyone because of the actions of a small number of criminals or madmen. As you've seen above, it doesn't matter how you or I, or even a majority of any group of people see this issue. Its not debatable. You and I were born with these rights, and even if one of us doesn't recognize that fact and chooses to try to vote our rights away, it can't be done. Any laws to that affect are null and void, and must be defied. Having said that, what is your favorite treat? Lets hypothetically say its a cupcake. Chocolate with chocolate frosting. Mmmmm... Let's say one day someone gains access to the queen and smashes a chocolate cupcake with chocolate frosting into her face. They really smear it in there. In response to the act of this crazy cupcake marauder, the queen decrees that all chocolate cupcakes with chocolate frosting are banned from the land. You can no longer buy, own, possess, make, transport or eat chocolate cupcakes with chocolate frosting. BOOM! Done. The problem of the scourge of chocolate cupcakes with chocolate frosting is now solved forever, right? But wait... Why do you no longer get your favorite treat? You didn't do anything wrong? You'd never waste your cupcakes by smearing them in anyone's face, and certainly not the queen's face! What about all the other people that have never and would never use their cupcakes for illegal or immoral purposes? What about the threat of vanilla cupcakes? Its already illegal to smear a cupcake in the queen's face and this person did it anyway, so what is banning cupcakes going to do? If someone wants to do it again, they'll just go get a cupcake and do it. The queen's new policy is words on a piece of paper. Those words won't protect her or anyone from nefarious cupcake smashers if they choose to break the law anyway. Its pointless. Everyone has lost their freedom to enjoy chocolate cupcakes, but no one is safe from chocolate cupcakes, and all the other cupcake flavors can still do the same thing. If someone has evil intentions they can still get or make a cupcake and no law will stop them. Did the queen's new law make chocolate cupcakes harder to come by? Maybe, but it would still be a very easy thing to get or make.

I'll end with this: Our system of government was intended to make this country free, not safe. Our Constitution and Bill of Rights is supposed to guarantee your freedom in this country, not your safety. With freedom there is inherent risk. A lunatic can get a gun and do bad things here, but if you look around, lunatics are doing that all over the world, and always have. Trodding upon the freedom of hundreds of millions of people will not stop the madmen or make anyone safer. Bad people will always find ways to do bad things. Trodding upon our freedom will disarm the good guys and the good guys only, and it will allow yet another episode of government atrocity that we have seen so many times throughout human history.

If you pass a law to disarm everyone, the criminals will ignore it. The effect will be defenseless victims at the mercy of lawless criminals. My preference is to allow the good guys to be armed and fight back. This is exactly what we do and have always done here, and the fear of certain death forces many criminals to re-think their strategy and choose a safer course of action which is why you keep seeing heinous crimes occurring in "gun free zones". These signs should say "Helpless Victims With No Means of Defense Zones", because that is what they are, and that is EXACTLY how deranged criminals see them.

Questions, debate and conversation is welcome.

 

[Tortoise Tom]

Is this compensating for something else?. To be honest im a gun owner and but i don't feel it's necessary to have that. I would trust my 40 any day over a automatic rifle, if something were to ever happen i just want one clean shot rather then spraying into crowd.
I live in one of the worst city's in Ohio, little town called Whitehall. Google it, its worth a google. Our crime rate is ridiculous and home invasions are at a all time high. I have to own a gun. Not going to tell anyone what they can and cannot have but not really necessary. Only reason we need those is for war, and trust me if the US ever came to that point, we the people would have no chance wether or not we have automatic weapons or not. They could wipe us out without ever seeing it coming.

Much fail here. Your words are the product of the mass propaganda campaign foisted upon our society by the people who are trying to ruin it and take it over.

How many defensive shooting classes have you taken with your .40? How many have you taken with a defensive shotgun or AR? I mean you no insult, but your comments tell me that you've done neither. The AR is a very effective home defense gun if used correctly. Much more effective than any hand gun, and much less likely to miss, or over penetrate. You handgun ammo is going to go through several walls. The .223 or .556 rounds are likely to be stopped in the first wall. This is a matter of life and death for everyone on the other side of bad guy you are shooting at.

No one is going to spray into a crowd with a handgun or an AR. When has this ever happened with the gun in the hands of a good guy?

The gun in the pic is not an "automatic rifle". Its semi-auto. Not semantics. Its a very important difference and the media wants you confused about it. This is not a weapon of war. Have you ever shot one? It is a tool designed to throw lead projectiles down range reliably and accurately. How it is used, or misused, is entirely up to the person holding it. There are much more dangerous guns available for sale out there, but the media wants you to think that these scary looking guns with the black plastic parts are only for killing masses of innocent victims. Its total BS. It is a terrible LIE. Don't buy it, and please don't repeat it for them and help them spread their lies. ARs are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot and they can be effective tools for just about any shooting task from hunting, to target shooting, paper punching, to pest control. My 12 year old daughter has her very own. Its pink cammo. She shoots it carefully, responsibly and always with a big smile.

I'm totally fine with you choosing whatever weapons you want for whatever defensive purposes you want, buy I respectfully ask that you don't try to choose for me or spread misinformation reported by a biased media with an evil agenda. If you ever make it out this way, I'm personally inviting you and yours to my private range for a day of fun and an introduction to the fun that can be had with a properly used AR.

 

[Rs50matt]

I don’t really know where to start. So I won’t get into the history of nations just my own queries and understandings.


Speeding tickets are legally enforced. You can just tear it up but then you’ll get a court summons (not immediately but if you continue to refuse) this may sound like “just accepting it” but that’s what it is. Speed limits are in place for safety reasons. If you don’t stick to that and you get caught you get punished. This may sound controlling but look at the flip side. Your car is hit by someone who was going way to fast and your kids are killed. They’ve been given speeding tickets before but just tore them up as there was no repercussion for doing so. You’d be pretty upset.

The right to bare arms to defend yourself against government is no longer relevant and to me sounds like a last ditch effort to defend having guns. You may have a nice new PDW but the government has bigger guns. There is no country in the developed world where civilians have the ability to oppose government arsenal. Over here in the UK we hear a lot on the news about mass shootings in the states (I’m aware the country is much larger than the uk) most of these at schools. It doesn’t make sense to us how people can still defend the right to bare arms when kids (little innocent people) have the possibility of being killed at school. It’s barbaric

The only question I have to you is drugs. America has controls on drugs and people still get hold of them. So why control it? . What I’m getting at is I’ve heard Americans defend guns by saying if you get rid of them only bad guys have them. That’s true over here aswell. No one has guns , police aren’t always armed and some guys are still able to get hold of guns. But this is very very rare circumstances. Very rarely do you hear of him violence in Europe.

But different place. Different people. It’s a stalemate arguement. No matter what you say I will never defend someone freely having a gun. And no matter what I say you will never give up you guns.

 

[Casey K.]

I don't know about Mr. Smith, but we don't create violence around here, we create art. Violence is a response.View attachment 37018

Awww it looks similar to mine.....only mine looks like it has red spiders on it.....its pretty bad ass.....

 

[Casey K.]

Thank you for asking and being polite about it. I will respond in kind.

Much of this is opinion based on flawed human perception and my personal experiences. What is fact is that our Constitutional Amendments have never changed. More have been added along the way, but the originals are still there and have never been changed.

There are many thoughts running through my head regarding how to explain this to you. Its a question that has been asked to many an American by many a Brit, or other Europeans. My career has taken me all over the world, and I've had this conversation with Brits, South Africans, Frenchies, Dutch and a few other nationalities too. There seems to be a perception by many people from your side of the world that the Government must be obeyed. There seems to be this perception that government is good and whatever they say is best for the people. There is a willingness to accept whatever the government dictates to you. I had a conversation with a German about those speeding cameras on the roads. If you drive to fast, it takes your picture and sends you a fine in the mail. I asked him what happens if you don't pay it. He said, "You must pay it". I said, "Yeah, but what if you don't?" He said, "I don't understand. There is no option to not pay it. You have to pay it." I asked him, "What if I am a defiant criminal and I tear up the ticket and throw it away? Then what happens?" By the look on his face, I had blown his mind. He could not conceive of defying the government and not paying the required fine. The ramifications of those kinds of thoughts were clearly very uncomfortable and distressing to him. Here in the States, about 80-90% of those tickets go unpaid. We give them the finger and proclaim, "FU! I ain't payin' !!!

The ideals that you were raised with and that you subscribe to over there (Speaking in general here...) Are the very ideals that we over here decided to literally revolt against. We had a bloody war that we were pretty sure we would lose, because England was the greatest military power in existence at the time, but we would rather be dead than live under what was perceived as King George's tyranny. Let that sink in for a moment. We'd rather be dead than do what your king was telling us to do. To say Americans are defiant, would be a gross understatement. We adhere to the greater principals of right and wrong, vs. the principals of what the current government says is legal or illegal. Our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, and our Amendments were and are a monumental and ground breaking concept. The greatest experiment in human freedom the world has ever seen. No longer would a monarchy or ruling government tell the people what the deal was. The PEOPLE would tell the government what the deal was. A system of checks and balances was put into place to make sure that government, as it always does, couldn't grow too powerful and wrest the power to govern away from "the people". Our founding fathers recognized and put in to print the recognition of certain Natural Laws. These Natural Laws say that all men are endowed by their creator will certain unalienable rights. These God given birthrights and not granted by the government and cannot be revoked by any government. Our documents that you think we are "obsessed" about enumerate these rights and explain how the government recognizes and is supposed to protect these rights. Our whole system of government was created in response to and in defiance of your whole system of government. THIS is why our system doesn't make sense to most Brits. Its the reason we separated from you and fought an awful war to do so.

One of these inalienable, irrevocable, God given birth rights, is the right to self defense. Self defense against the common criminal, and self defense against a tyrannical government. "The People" are supposed to be as well armed as the standing government armies, so that if the government leaders order their standing armies to act against the will of the people, the people have the means to fight back. Who are you to tell me what means I am allowed to have to fight back? What gives any government the right to tell me what tools I may use to defend my family? There is no such right. Not in America. For decades our elected "leaders" have been defying their oaths of office to defend our Constitution and its supporting documents, and they've been infringing upon our freedoms and our God given rights. We've allowed this. The current crop of evil-doers is openly and obviously trying to break down what our founding fathers built and replace it with their totalitarian concepts. Over the last few decades, they've gained control over our schools, the entirety of the media, and all levels of local governments. They are brainwashing our kids from an early age and right on through college, using the media to dupe you and about half the people over here, and using our own governments to abuse us and implement their illegal, unconstitutional, nefarious policies. The half of America that isn't duped is a tolerant bunch. We don't want a violent confrontation. We are doing everything possible to avoid violence over these issues, but we are quickly reaching and impasse: They won't stop forcing their ideals on us through any means they can exploit, and ultimately we are not going to accept their ideals, just as we didn't when King George attempted to levy his might against us. To avoid bloodshed "they" have to give up and quit trying to force their flawed ideas upon ur country, which isn't likely since they've been trying and failing since the first world war, OR, we have to accept their will and do what they say, which as you can see from some of the responses here on this very thread is never going to happen.

So there are the broader concepts in general. Now I'd like to speak more philosophically on the concepts of disarming everyone because of the actions of a small number of criminals or madmen. As you've seen above, it doesn't matter how you or I, or even a majority of any group of people see this issue. Its not debatable. You and I were born with these rights, and even if one of us doesn't recognize that fact and chooses to try to vote our rights away, it can't be done. Any laws to that affect are null and void, and must be defied. Having said that, what is your favorite treat? Lets hypothetically say its a cupcake. Chocolate with chocolate frosting. Mmmmm... Let's say one day someone gains access to the queen and smashes a chocolate cupcake with chocolate frosting into her face. They really smear it in there. In response to the act of this crazy cupcake marauder, the queen decrees that all chocolate cupcakes with chocolate frosting are banned from the land. You can no longer buy, own, possess, make, transport or eat chocolate cupcakes with chocolate frosting. BOOM! Done. The problem of the scourge of chocolate cupcakes with chocolate frosting is now solved forever, right? But wait... Why do you no longer get your favorite treat? You didn't do anything wrong? You'd never waste your cupcakes by smearing them in anyone's face, and certainly not the queen's face! What about all the other people that have never and would never use their cupcakes for illegal or immoral purposes? What about the threat of vanilla cupcakes? Its already illegal to smear a cupcake in the queen's face and this person did it anyway, so what is banning cupcakes going to do? If someone wants to do it again, they'll just go get a cupcake and do it. The queen's new policy is words on a piece of paper. Those words won't protect her or anyone from nefarious cupcake smashers if they choose to break the law anyway. Its pointless. Everyone has lost their freedom to enjoy chocolate cupcakes, but no one is safe from chocolate cupcakes, and all the other cupcake flavors can still do the same thing. If someone has evil intentions they can still get or make a cupcake and no law will stop them. Did the queen's new law make chocolate cupcakes harder to come by? Maybe, but it would still be a very easy thing to get or make.

I'll end with this: Our system of government was intended to make this country free, not safe. Our Constitution and Bill of Rights is supposed to guarantee your freedom in this country, not your safety. With freedom there is inherent risk. A lunatic can get a gun and do bad things here, but if you look around, lunatics are doing that all over the world, and always have. Trodding upon the freedom of hundreds of millions of people will not stop the madmen or make anyone safer. Bad people will always find ways to do bad things. Trodding upon our freedom will disarm the good guys and the good guys only, and it will allow yet another episode of government atrocity that we have seen so many times throughout human history.

If you pass a law to disarm everyone, the criminals will ignore it. The effect will be defenseless victims at the mercy of lawless criminals. My preference is to allow the good guys to be armed and fight back. This is exactly what we do and have always done here, and the fear of certain death forces many criminals to re-think their strategy and choose a safer course of action which is why you keep seeing heinous crimes occurring in "gun free zones". These signs should say "Helpless Victims With No Means of Defense Zones", because that is what they are, and that is EXACTLY how deranged criminals see them.

Questions, debate and conversation is welcome.

I'm making chocolate cupcakes......with chocolate frosting......care for some?

 

[Casey K.]

Much fail here. Your words are the product of the mass propaganda campaign foisted upon our society by the people who are trying to ruin it and take it over.

How many defensive shooting classes have you taken with your .40? How many have you taken with a defensive shotgun or AR? I mean you no insult, but your comments tell me that you've done neither. The AR is a very effective home defense gun if used correctly. Much more effective than any hand gun, and much less likely to miss, or over penetrate. You handgun ammo is going to go through several walls. The .223 or .556 rounds are likely to be stopped in the first wall. This is a matter of life and death for everyone on the other side of bad guy you are shooting at.

No one is going to spray into a crowd with a handgun or an AR. When has this ever happened with the gun in the hands of a good guy?

The gun in the pic is not an "automatic rifle". Its semi-auto. Not semantics. Its a very important difference and the media wants you confused about it. This is not a weapon of war. Have you ever shot one? It is a tool designed to throw lead projectiles down range reliably and accurately. How it is used, or misused, is entirely up to the person holding it. There are much more dangerous guns available for sale out there, but the media wants you to think that these scary looking guns with the black plastic parts are only for killing masses of innocent victims. Its total BS. It is a terrible LIE. Don't buy it, and please don't repeat it for them and help them spread their lies. ARs are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot and they can be effective tools for just about any shooting task from hunting, to target shooting, paper punching, to pest control. My 12 year old daughter has her very own. Its pink cammo. She shoots it carefully, responsibly and always with a big smile.

I'm totally fine with you choosing whatever weapons you want for whatever defensive purposes you want, buy I respectfully ask that you don't try to choose for me or spread misinformation reported by a biased media with an evil agenda. If you ever make it out this way, I'm personally inviting you and yours to my private range for a day of fun and an introduction to the fun that can be had with a properly used AR.

Mine shoots about like a 22 but with a little punch.....not too bad. I've had shotguns that damn near put me on my ass and the AR is NOTHING like it.

 

[Casey K.]

I don't know about Mr. Smith, but we don't create violence around here, we create art. Violence is a response.View attachment 37018

I don't know about Mr. Smith, but we don't create violence around here, we create art. Violence is a response.View attachment 37018

 

[Tortoise Tom]

But different place. Different people. It’s a stalemate arguement. No matter what you say I will never defend someone freely having a gun. And no matter what I say you will never give up you guns.

Your conclusion may be correct, but I still think its a discussion worth having and thank you for your input. Even if we don't change our own points of view, there is benefit to understanding where the other is coming from, and I think there is insight to be gained by anyone reading our conversation.

Speeding tickets are legally enforced. You can just tear it up but then you’ll get a court summons (not immediately but if you continue to refuse) this may sound like “just accepting it” but that’s what it is. Speed limits are in place for safety reasons. If you don’t stick to that and you get caught you get punished. This may sound controlling but look at the flip side. Your car is hit by someone who was going way to fast and your kids are killed. They’ve been given speeding tickets before but just tore them up as there was no repercussion for doing so. You’d be pretty upset.

My point was not to debate the validity of speeding tickets. I really have no argument there. The point of the story was to illustrate the obedience to government demonstrated by some Europeans, in stark contrast to the typical American defiance toward the same.

The right to bare arms to defend yourself against government is no longer relevant and to me sounds like a last ditch effort to defend having guns. You may have a nice new PDW but the government has bigger guns. There is no country in the developed world where civilians have the ability to oppose government arsenal.

Here we disagree. Tell this to the disarmed people of Venezuela right now.

Several points to demonstrate why I think you are wrong on this point:

• There are 350 million Americans, and more privately owned guns than that. There are only around 1 million soldiers in ALL of our armed forces. We would slaughter them. There is a quote from a Japanese Admiral given shortly after then end of WWII. He was asked why the Japs didn't invade the West coast of the United States after Pearl Harbor. Our Navy was decimated and our left coast was sitting there mostly defenseless against the might of the Japanese armada. His answer: "You cannot invade the United States, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." This quote is largely disputed, and I don't think we will ever know who said it or if it was even said, but it is and was true in any case.
• The American military is made up of Americans. Our sons and daughters. Neighbors and friends. Some percentage of them will "just follow orders". Some percentage of them will fight on our side, with their military machines and weaponry. What are these percentages? No one really knows, but we debate it and think about it often. My buddy flies Blackhawks for the Army. I've been assured that I am not the target he will be shooting at should there ever be another Civil War. Likewise with my friends and family in law enforcement.
• The framers of our Constitution that I mentioned previously had the wisdom to make it completely forbidden in any and every way to use the American military against Americans. The first soldier to fire on an American citizen is in violation of the law and has committed an act of treason punishable by death. Will they do it anyway? Yes. Some of them probably will. But not all of them. It is pure fantasy and nothing but speculation to try and debate how this will go.

Over here in the UK we hear a lot on the news about mass shootings in the states (I’m aware the country is much larger than the uk) most of these at schools. It doesn’t make sense to us how people can still defend the right to bare arms when kids (little innocent people) have the possibility of being killed at school. It’s barbaric

In reading this paragraph from you, it appears my previous words didn't reach you. To summarize: Bad people do bad things. Always have always will. When our government disarms good guys, and creates "Gun Free Zones" in our schools, they create an environment where madmen seeking fame and notoriety can operate freely and safely while committing these atrocities. Put another way, do you know why there are no mass shootings at police stations? Armed resistance makes it difficult for the deranged to ply their trade. Every time one of these guys shows up and is greeted unexpectedly, by an armed good guy, the mass murdering ends immediately. What you need to understand is that the mass media, in your country too, is pushing an agenda. They don't publicize when an armed good guy stops a murderous lunatic. Often only the lunatic dies, so there is no sensational story about how many innocents were murdered to make people afraid of guns and support their cause of disarming America.

My daughter attends a private school. There are well trained armed men keeping an eye on things in and around the school. If one of these deranged lunatics shows up at her school to make a name for himself and get famous, he will promptly be shot in the face, before setting foot on school grounds, and there will only be one death on that day. His.

The only question I have to you is drugs. America has controls on drugs and people still get hold of them. So why control it? . What I’m getting at is I’ve heard Americans defend guns by saying if you get rid of them only bad guys have them. That’s true over here aswell. No one has guns , police aren’t always armed and some guys are still able to get hold of guns. But this is very very rare circumstances. Very rarely do you hear of him violence in Europe.

I can't comment on crime and drugs in your part of the world. I don't think I know enough to do so, but in America, the "War on Drugs" is an embarrassing, tragic, atrocious, disgusting, failure in every way. You can literally buy illegal drugs here in any city with a minimum of effort. There is ZERO point in making drugs illegal and the cost for trying in money, human suffering and lives lost is staggering. Our "leaders" should have learned this lesson with prohibition in the 1920s. You cannot tell adult humans what they can and can't do when it comes to mind altering substances. Drugs and alcohol have been a part of human society since there has been human society. There is no stopping it. There is only the count of lives destroyed by trying to stop it.

My opinion, which will be disagreed with by many, is that we should legalize all drugs, tax them, and use the tax money for anti-drug education, rehab, and retribution for the innocent lives destroyed by drug use. Make it legal and you'll take away most of the violence and crime that is associated with it. Some people are weak. This will never change. But if they made heroin legal tomorrow in your country, would you walk on down to the store and buy some to shoot up? I wouldn't. I don't do drugs now and I wouldn't do them if they were legal. I enjoy an occasional beer, but I don't get drunk, I don't drive after the occasional beer. People who do drugs are going to do them one way or the other, legal or not. People who don't do drugs aren't going to suddenly start if it was made legal. Rather than fight this aspect of human nature, a fight that cannot be won, I propose we work to understand it, and mitigate the damage as much as possible.

Further, there is no birthright do do drugs and self harm. There IS an assumed birthright for gun ownership and self-defense. This makes the comparison of drug laws and guns laws entirely moot, regardless of where anyone sides on either.


In closing, you asked for an education. No way to do that here, but I can give tidbits that help to explain why we do what we do over here. You are being lied to by the media. Both our media and your own. Here is a tiny little bit of the truth to whet your appetite for more. I can't force anyone to see things my way, but I can at least offer a little bit of fact even if it is drowned out by a sea of media lies. Please take a few minutes to watch this one and then I'd love to hear your opinion on it:

 

[Tgotty90]

Much fail here. Your words are the product of the mass propaganda campaign foisted upon our society by the people who are trying to ruin it and take it over.

How many defensive shooting classes have you taken with your .40? How many have you taken with a defensive shotgun or AR? I mean you no insult, but your comments tell me that you've done neither. The AR is a very effective home defense gun if used correctly. Much more effective than any hand gun, and much less likely to miss, or over penetrate. You handgun ammo is going to go through several walls. The .223 or .556 rounds are likely to be stopped in the first wall. This is a matter of life and death for everyone on the other side of bad guy you are shooting at.

No one is going to spray into a crowd with a handgun or an AR. When has this ever happened with the gun in the hands of a good guy?

The gun in the pic is not an "automatic rifle". Its semi-auto. Not semantics. Its a very important difference and the media wants you confused about it. This is not a weapon of war. Have you ever shot one? It is a tool designed to throw lead projectiles down range reliably and accurately. How it is used, or misused, is entirely up to the person holding it. There are much more dangerous guns available for sale out there, but the media wants you to think that these scary looking guns with the black plastic parts are only for killing masses of innocent victims. Its total BS. It is a terrible LIE. Don't buy it, and please don't repeat it for them and help them spread their lies. ARs are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot and they can be effective tools for just about any shooting task from hunting, to target shooting, paper punching, to pest control. My 12 year old daughter has her very own. Its pink cammo. She shoots it carefully, responsibly and always with a big smile.

I'm totally fine with you choosing whatever weapons you want for whatever defensive purposes you want, buy I respectfully ask that you don't try to choose for me or spread misinformation reported by a biased media with an evil agenda. If you ever make it out this way, I'm personally inviting you and yours to my private range for a day of fun and an introduction to the fun that can be had with a properly used AR.

I agree that it's your right to own them, i just personally don't feel it's necessary but whatever floats your boat. Never said they should be banned completely, and yes i have taken defense classes and have a concealed carry. That's awesome you have taught your daughter to be responsible with it, as I've done with my nephews. But the problem is, there is so many ****ed up people in this world that have done damage that can't be undone and it will never be the same here because of that. I'm not saying anyone is bad for having them, i have friends and family that own them and they are a lot of fun at the range, where they should be, but sad thing is that's not where everyone uses them. It's your right to own whatever you want and i totally stand by that, just as it's my right to think it's not necessary. No argument about it because at the end of the day my opinion really doesn't matter its just a opinion. And just so you know the media has no influence on me, thank god i check the weather on my phone so i don't have to listen to any of that crap. I just take care of me and my own and try to keep to myself. I just wanted to give my two cents to those who think they can overthrow the government by having a few guns, not gonna happen. They shouldn't have any right to take this from us but little we can do if that were to happen. If you own them for hobby and/or self defense and respect it, thats fine but i don't like when people think their a badass because they own one.

If I'm ever in southern cal I'll stop by and let off a few rounds with you, sounds like a blast

 

[Tgotty90]

Just hope no one here is getting overly offended by any of this, this is just a testament to our freedom of speech, we're all adults here for the most part and this is a good way to show all our opinions differ and thats ok, that's what made this country so great at one point, the fact we can voice our opinions with out repercussions is what it's all about. You should be able to have a conversation like this without getting offended but that's easier said then done.

 

[Metalman2004]

I don’t really know where to start. So I won’t get into the history of nations just my own queries and understandings.


Speeding tickets are legally enforced. You can just tear it up but then you’ll get a court summons (not immediately but if you continue to refuse) this may sound like “just accepting it” but that’s what it is. Speed limits are in place for safety reasons. If you don’t stick to that and you get caught you get punished. This may sound controlling but look at the flip side. Your car is hit by someone who was going way to fast and your kids are killed. They’ve been given speeding tickets before but just tore them up as there was no repercussion for doing so. You’d be pretty upset.

The right to bare arms to defend yourself against government is no longer relevant and to me sounds like a last ditch effort to defend having guns. You may have a nice new PDW but the government has bigger guns. There is no country in the developed world where civilians have the ability to oppose government arsenal. Over here in the UK we hear a lot on the news about mass shootings in the states (I’m aware the country is much larger than the uk) most of these at schools. It doesn’t make sense to us how people can still defend the right to bare arms when kids (little innocent people) have the possibility of being killed at school. It’s barbaric

The only question I have to you is drugs. America has controls on drugs and people still get hold of them. So why control it? . What I’m getting at is I’ve heard Americans defend guns by saying if you get rid of them only bad guys have them. That’s true over here aswell. No one has guns , police aren’t always armed and some guys are still able to get hold of guns. But this is very very rare circumstances. Very rarely do you hear of him violence in Europe.

But different place. Different people. It’s a stalemate arguement. No matter what you say I will never defend someone freely having a gun. And no matter what I say you will never give up you guns.

I usually stay out of these discussions simply because it is a stalemate argument and I can’t say that I’ve ever seen someone actively change their mind on the subject. I also don’t think that what’s good for America is necessarily good for the rest of the world. It is good for us though. All that being said, you’ve lobbed a couple of pitches right over the plate so I can’t help but swing

I think that the majority of people making the “its no longer relevant” argument never totally understood the relevance in the first place. When the revolutionary war started there were two types of people, those that didn’t want to fight because they were outgunned and those that fought even though they were outgunned. History is full of stories of the outgunned and oppressed fighting back and winning.

I will point out one big disconnect you have in the speeding analogy. Let’s do a side by side comparison. Cars are widely available to the public and if you pass the test you are aloud to get a driver license. If a kid steals the keys to his parents’ car (that are usually sitting on the kitchen counter) and runs people over he might be charged with manslaughter (sometimes they are let off with no jail time). End of story.

Gun laws vary from state to state, but ironically the states that have the worst gun violence problems are the ones that have the greatest restrictions on them. In Texas, one of the more lenient states, you have to pass a written test and shooting test to get a license (just like a drivers license) to carry a pistol. You are also legally required to keep your gun locked and away from children (the car keys are aloud to sit on the kitchen counter). If a kid breaks into his parents’ safe, steals their gun and shoots someone they are charged and the masses scream and debate about taking everyone’s guns away. There is no debate about taking cars away even though they are just as deadly because more people find cars useful. That doesn’t take away from those that do find guns useful though.

To sum up, steal a car and kill someone you might go to jail. Steal a gun and kill someone and half the country screams about taking away the tool that was used to commit said crime. Then we circle back to the relevance argument.

Despite what the media would have you think, there are gun laws here and murder is indeed illegal, whether by car or gun. The sad truth is the vast majority of the shooters obtained their guns by circumventing the law. Some stole the guns from others (and those others are rarely charged for not properly securing their weapon). Some passed background checks that they should have failed and the gov’t dropped the ball. It’s tough to even start talking about more gun laws when the ones we have aren’t enforced. Meanwhile the speeding laws are fully enforced

If you live in London I wouldn’t expect you to necessarily understand the usefulness of a good gun, but in a large portion of the US they are quite useful, from putting quality, ethical, free range food on the table to defense to controlling the invasive wild hog population that is wreaking havoc on this country. The average response time of emergency services here is 20-30 minutes because the US is so expansive. You can’t just rely on cops here because they might be a half hr away when your life is on the line.

The argument (in America anyways) that more gun laws only disarm the law abiding is rather valid. In a place where the criminals are already mostly disarmed that may not be the case, but America is loaded with guns both legal and illegal. If you start taking guns from the law abiding you have a huge population that are sitting ducks waiting to be taken advantage of by the criminals that are armed. You are looking at decades of not a century of defenseless citizens being taken advantage of by criminals. If you can come up with a good plan to disarm the criminals I’m all ears, but it’s basically inconceivable.

By the way, I myself am a more simple person when it comes to firearms. I had an AR but sold it years ago. They are incredibly versatile and my wife found it easy to use, it just isn’t my thing. I’m more of a big bore revolver and single shot guy.

 

[Metalman2004]

Just hope no one here is getting overly offended by any of this, this is just a testament to our freedom of speech, we're all adults here for the most part and this is a good way to show all our opinions differ and thats ok, that's what made this country so great at one point, the fact we can voice our opinions with out repercussions is what it's all about. You should be able to have a conversation like this without getting offended but that's easier said then done.

I’m sure some of you noticed that a similar discussion is being had on the other tarantula forum and I wouldn’t say it’s the least bit civil. Here is quite different. Says a lot about this place (and that one).

 

[Hemolymph]

Don’t tread on me!!!!!

 

[Casey K.]

Don’t tread on me!!!!!

Precisely!!!