Some tips in case you get bitten

[WolfSpider]

Agree with Clownie. Tough guy he is. I doubt he'd have gone to the ER if he didn't have a dislocated pinkie. He did say something I want to emphasize: it is impossible to have an allergic reaction to T venom. It is too primitive. The various protein moieties in the venom are too small to be taken up by an antigen presenting cell. In fact, no allergic reaction has ever been documented. Benadryl is for intense burning and itching from non allergic inflammation. It is not used to stop or prevent an allergic reaction.

Dr. Ross

 

[Combat Advantage]

My medical knowledge is basic but sufficient to agree with your very good advice. Loads of people really don't understand drug interactions let alone the potential interactions between venom and various drugs. I'm allergic to literally all pain killers apart from those that would be sourced from tarantula venom in the first place so if I do get bitten it's just a case of antihistamines and otherwise riding it out which I agree is the best practice in any case. As you say Tylenol or paracetamol here in the UK is rough on the liver which isn't ideal when there is already a toxin present and ibuprofen can accelerate and worsen allergic reactions. You've made very sound points. I feel like it might be worth keepers of venomous pets should have an info file ready for medical professionals in the case of a bite. My scorpion is harmless but I have a couple of spicy T's and am adding a foxface to my marine tank. This makes me think it would be worth keeping an epipen to hand just in case I find I'm allergic after being bitten or stung. The only other danger pets I have are my green spotted puffers but they are poisonous rather than venomous so only a risk if for instance one was injured and I had a point of entry on my skin while dealing with it. Long odds but I still feel like it's important for emergency response to know somehow that tetrodotoxin would be the reason I was suddenly completely paralysed, it can be quickly fatal but treatable if dealt with in a timely manner. Do you keep rattlers then? I have a real soft spot for them, lovely characters and no problem if treated with respect

All excellent points.
I think that an EpiPen, an antihistamine and a follow-up protocol is very responsibly wise. A card with the specific puffer's toxin and your medical references is beyond what most keepers would have on hand just in case of the worst case scenario. This would not only save time but also may lead the ER dr. on staff at any given time some direction..... Your direction as to what your desires are. Having all of that in writing is especially helpful when under stress and trauma, perhaps unconscious.
If I could add that you may find a veterinarian who is on staff at a large zoo/aquarium (s). He may provide practical advice that exceeds any hospital physician. If a human MD would agree ahead of time to be your advocate in a hypothetical future emergency, his contact info can be added along with the veterinarian. Detailed instructions would be your choice rather than a newbie at the hospital.....who by chance may or may not find the best treatment.

My first ER experience was that of a college student practicing stitches on my open scalp. I think that they should start sewing on fabrics, leather and pickled pigs feet before children. Everything else is like that too. Since then I've seen some very good and too much extreme poor care. Some have been injuries and death of patients from physician chosen drug therapies.

As to rattlesnakes, I no longer keep snakes. I used to catch Timber rattlers and Eastern US Copperheads, etc. for wildlife education in my part of the US.
It provided up close identification to communities of what was present, how to deal with safety issues in the wild, etc.
My collection contained cobras and African pit vipers as far as hot snakes.

 

[ABYZL]

All excellent points.
I think that an EpiPen, an antihistamine and a follow-up protocol is very responsibly wise. A card with the specific puffer's toxin and your medical references is beyond what most keepers would have on hand just in case of the worst case scenario. This would not only save time but also may lead the ER dr. on staff at any given time some direction..... Your direction as to what your desires are. Having all of that in writing is especially helpful when under stress and trauma, perhaps unconscious.
If I could add that you may find a veterinarian who is on staff at a large zoo/aquarium (s). He may provide practical advice that exceeds any hospital physician. If a human MD would agree ahead of time to be your advocate in a hypothetical future emergency, his contact info can be added along with the veterinarian. Detailed instructions would be your choice rather than a newbie at the hospital.....who by chance may or may not find the best treatment.

My first ER experience was that of a college student practicing stitches on my open scalp. I think that they should start sewing on fabrics, leather and pickled pigs feet before children. Everything else is like that too. Since then I've seen some very good and too much extreme poor care. Some have been injuries and death of patients from physician chosen drug therapies.

As to rattlesnakes, I no longer keep snakes. I used to catch Timber rattlers and Eastern US Copperheads, etc. for wildlife education in my part of the US.
It provided up close identification to communities of what was present, how to deal with safety issues in the wild, etc.
My collection contained cobras and African pit vipers as far as hot snakes.

It definitely pays off to have information regarding venom to hand and available to medical professionals that may not have that particular knowledge. While I have plenty of respect for medical professionals they are certainly not infallible. Too right about stitching skills, before I went back to psychology and music as career paths I was a fashion designer successfully but briefly. I must admit that I suture myself if I get a deep cut as I can do so with either hand far more neatly than most doctors lol. This is particularly useful in the current circumstances when no one really wants the risk of going to A&E (our version of ER) or putting pressure on staff who are already struggling. I sorted out a broken foot and a cracked wisdom tooth myself during the first lockdown at the peak of the epidemic for that reason. It's good to hear someone is educating people about local venomous snakes. the cobras and pit vipers sound amazing, I don't have any hot pets due to risk to other pets but they are beautiful. I've been able to meet cobras in the past and they have brilliant personalities. Fair play giving them a good home

 

[Combat Advantage]

I agree on the medical professionals. I come from a medical family and have religiously studied the best that I could find in my field. You'll also notice that I am very opinionated on certain specific areas concerning medicine. In my community, medical professionals are exaulted as something higher than mere mortals. I've known good and bad nurses, pharmacists, physicians, etc. Like anyone else I realize that most aren't exceptionally one way or another, but patients turn over their volition to the experts in the weakest times. Having lost 4 close family members to those who forced medical procedures on them without their consent or knowledge, they died needlessly. That's one thing that I hope to do is to speak for the dead.

That's really interesting about the fashion design. You must be artisticly gifted going into music too. I was just about to sit down and recondition a vintage 1950s American field jacket that's been restored. It's been passed down through the family , so has sentimental value. To make it more practical and fashionable, the collar was overlaid with a weather resistant leather collar. I then duck waxed the fabric and turned it into a breathable rain jacket that looks good in town. Anyhow, I digress.

I used to be into hundreds of exotics and the venomous for a time. After a while decided that there are enough interesting non venomous snakes and there wasn't enough reason to breed the others. Cobras are very intelligent in general, learn and some were unpredictable.
I don't have any pics handy, but will post someone elses Rhino Viper below. The Ituri Forest variety are the most beautiful, colorful snake in the world IMHO. It just doesn't allow mistakes. LOL!
Here are a couple of someones videos that do not do them justice. Mine were nearly neon brilliant genetic line of every color of the rainbow. I was unable to see haphazard random chance resulting in these creatures when raising them. They had to be the result of an artist of infinite talents far beyond my imagination.

 

[Combat Advantage]

Photos of Poecilotheria ornata bite. It actually dislocated my pinky...still not sure how. Surface wounds almost nonexistent but internal deep pain was intense. One fang pierced clear through. Only went to the ER because I couldn't reset my finger. They gave me a huge amount of benadryl and numbed the finger to reset. Half a bottle of tequila helped out alot. Cramping in my pinky lasted for a few months afterwards.View attachment 51505View attachment 51506View attachment 51507

Question if you don't mind?
I can identify with the pain you went through. Not from a T bite, but from various reptiles, mammals, and martial arts competition akin to UFC without the rules... destroyed 3 knuckles.
I find first hand information, pun not intended, like yours valuable. Do you think that the dislocation may have resulted from swelling rather than the mechanical trauma of the fang, or the other way around?
Do you think it was possible for the dislocation t

 

[Arachnoclown]

Question if you don't mind?
I can identify with the pain you went through. Not from a T bite, but from various reptiles, mammals, and martial arts competition akin to UFC without the rules... destroyed 3 knuckles.
I find first hand information, pun not intended, like yours valuable. Do you think that the dislocation may have resulted from swelling rather than the mechanical trauma of the fang, or the other way around?
Do you think it was possible for the dislocation t

I think I dislocated it after the bite...shaking my hand in a downward motion. It felt like molten hot fire in my hand. Its the only thing I can think of, it was almost instantly dislocated. Way before the swelling.

 

[Combat Advantage]

Arachnoclown,

That makes sense. I've seen shoulder dislocations from the force of throwing punches that didn't connect.
That's probably a double injury then.
Thanks for sharing the experience and pics.

 

[Oursapoil]

Excellent thread and advices.
If I missed it my apologies but I would like to do one little addition.
As our favorite eight legged friends all have some kind of soil in their enclosure and as most of us are grown ups (at least on papers) who haven't been to school in a while, it might be worth it to consider a tetanus shot after a bite. My two cents
P.S: as alcohol can have sometimes side effects when taken with medicine, even with a few over the counter ones, just a kind reminder that weed or THC oil doesn't present the same risk and will help dull the pain as well as laughing about the whole incident.
Cheers.

 

[Combat Advantage]

This was one of my classes on the topic of Tetanus that you might also find very interesting. Dr. Suzanne Humphries, MD

 

[Oursapoil]

Thank you for posting the video.
Dr. Suzanne Humphries is a very eloquent speaker also well known as one of the strongest anti-vaccine voices. I found it interesting how she is using data showing no measles cases in 1970 and not something more current
I believe there has to be some percentage of truth within her agenda but at the same time, having a mother in law who was director of labs at one of NY largest hospital for more than 30 years, I am taking her opinion over Dr. Humphries as the later is more an homeopath than a microbiologist. I respect the decision of people who do not want to vaccinate their children as long as they do not want my kid to play with them or for their kids to go to the same public school as mine. Kind of the same with firearms, I respect people's right to own a firearm but will not let my child attend a birthday party or do a sleep over at someone's house if the parents own firearms.
But I digress, even Dr. Humphries agrees that tetanus is dangerous when the wound is not exposed to fresh air. Considering the length and curving of some Ts fangs, it is fair to say that the puncture is not likely to breath very much and a tetanus shot might be worth it.
Hoping everyone enjoys both side of the argumentation, cheers.

 

[Combat Advantage]

Thanks for taking the time to watch the lecture. I respect your freedom to choose whatever you decide is best for you and yours.
I spent most of my career in a very high risk occupation when it comes to tetanus, so I had to make a decision about the vaccine early on. My perspective is admittedly biased toward wound treatment, boosting immune responses naturally and avoiding medical/chemical risks. I lost 5 close family members to needless and improper medical interventions. Multiple other occasions at the highest rated hospitals in my state nearly took my parent's lives. Two family deaths were direct results of influenza vaccines, so I was motivated to pursue information on the history, efficiency, and safety of vaccines. In general, I discovered that vaccines are the only drugs/ medical treatments that are given special legal immunity from civil litigation. When the subject comes up, I can't help offering some small information on the risks and possible options available.
My biases take into consideration that we have all been raised with vaccines and assumptions of acceptance of safety and efficacy. It won't change my friendships and acquaintances if we disagree on the subject.

Cheers

 

[jas97]

Heres my first aid...plus some benadryl.
View attachment 51504
Please if someone actually has a allergic reaction please document it. You'll be the first one ever to of had one.

That’s great for you but some people do have serious allergic reactions- this is because they have immune problems, not the potency of the T’s bite

 

[WolfSpider]

That’s great for you but some people do have serious allergic reactions- this is because they have immune problems, not the potency of the T’s bite

Not possible. Even if you were the boy-in-the-bubble, you CANNOT have an allergic reaction to a T bite. This is true for all megomorphs.

 

[jas97]

Not possible. Even if you were the boy-in-the-bubble, you CANNOT have an allergic reaction to a T bite. This is true for all megomorphs.

Hi- this isn’t true it is uncommon for people to be allergic to bites BUT it is completely possible- source http://nch.adam.com/content.aspx?productId=117&isArticleLink=false&pid=1&gid=002855 and there are several others out there stating this. Anything with venom or something else that is injected into you can cause allergic reactions.

 

[WolfSpider]

The epitope for T venom is too small to cause granulation of mast cells or be taken up by antigen presenting cells. NiH or not, that article is wrong.

 

[jas97]

The epitope for T venom is too small to cause granulation of mast cells or be taken up by antigen presenting cells. NiH or not, that article is wrong.

Or the random guy on the internet is wrong over a health organisation....?

 

[Arachnoclown]

Or the random guy on the internet is wrong over a health organisation....?

Or some newb is posting generic information that has been edited with the word tarantula in it. Get some allergic documentation that has happened in the last 100 years...ill wait.

 

[WolfSpider]

Or the random guy on the internet is wrong over a health organisation....?

You are right. You convinced me. The strength of your argument has delivered a stunning blow to my ego and my medical degree. My bad. Don't bother listening to @Arachnoclown, as well. He isn't published on an NIH website. His 30 plus years in the business is meaningless.

 

[Arachnoclown]

@jas97 We are still waiting for that first allergic reaction victim. Maybe it will be you since your thinking about old worlds now? I recommend a Heteroscodra maculata or a Stromatopelma calceatum...take one for the team!!!

BTW my son has a immune deficiency. He's been tagged many times by new and old world spiders.

 

[Oursapoil]