another website

[Whitelightning777]

CPSC estimates that portable electric heaters are involved in about 1,100 fires per year, resulting in about 50 deaths, dozens of injuries and millions of dollars in property loss.

https://onsafety.cpsc.gov/blog/2017/01/13/your-space-heater-needs-space/



All firearm deaths

• Number of deaths: 33,594
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.5

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

Hm...something isn't adding up...

What adds up is that in many cases folks escape successfully. Nevertheless, just Google or Bing fatal space heater house fire it similar terms.

As far as guns go, 85+ million people own guns in America and they own about 300 million guns, which when compared to the fatalities indicates a very low risk indeed.

Yes, space heaters are dangerous.

 

[Miss Moxie]

What adds up is that in many cases folks escape successfully. Nevertheless, just Google or Bing fatal space heater house fire it similar terms.

As far as guns go, 85+ million people in America in about 300 million guns, which when compared to the fatalities indicates a very low risk indeed.

Yes, space heaters are dangerous.

You're so full of ****. Guns are very low risk compared to space heaters? I think this speaks volumes for everyone who sees it. You legitimately think that space heaters are worse than guns. How many space heater deaths were reported in 2018 so far? And how many school shootings and gun-deaths have been reported in 2018 so far? Only one month in.

Guns are far more dangerous than space heaters, but you baw about 'NO ONE WILL TAKE MY TARANTULAS OR MY GUNS' while bawing on youtube for half an hour about how dangerous space heaters are. You are a hypocrite, but most people who are full of **** -are- hypocrites so you're pretty much right on par.

You also have multiple loose wires and heat lamps, sitting -right- next to paper and other flammable materials. Your set up is a fire hazard, far more unsafe than any highly-rated space heater.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Yes, my setup is cluttered, but there's reduced power going throughout the setup. There aren't 300 million space heaters like the 300 million guns and that's important.

Guns do not just operate by themselves. They are used, rightly or wrongly, on purpose. A gun left to it's own devices has zero energy output. The same can't be said of space heaters which are essentially like leaving a barbecue or fireplace unattended.

There setup I have is extremely low energy. In terms of fire risk, a picture is worth a thousand words. Keep in mind the ceramic part of the lamp is the hottest part of the unit, another words the heat sink.

That lamp and others like it aren't going to burn anything. They will keep the area below them about 80 degrees. Blistering and injury would set in Long before anything ignited. It may look crappy, but it's a safe setup.

If you learn how to heat up an enclosure, you don't have to risk an entire room of your home. Digital thermometers are your friends. You can also use digital meat thermometers of the type used for hams and turkeys. The needle part is great for testing temps in substrate and underneath decorations. By taking multiple careful measurements, you can get safe stable warm temps. The main thing is attention to detail.

 

[Miss Moxie]

It comes down to this-- all electrical appliances are dangerous because they can cause fires right? Refrigerators, air conditioners, space heaters, washing machines and dryers, dishwashing machines-- all of those are dangerous because they cause fires right? Well here are some statistics about household fires:

• Three out of five home fire deaths happen from fires in homes with no smoke alarms or no working smoke alarms.
• In 2015, U.S. fire departments responded to an estimated 365,500 home structure fires. These fires caused 2,560 deaths, 11,075 civilian injuries, and $7 billion in direct damage.
• On average, seven people die in U.S. home fires per day.
• Cooking equipment is the leading cause of home fire injuries, followed by heating equipment.

via https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Campaigns/Fire-Prevention-Week/Fast-facts-about-fire

Not every household has a gun in it. It is estimated only around half of American households have a gun, versus EVERY household having electrical appliances in them.

• On an average day, 96 people are killed with guns.
• Seven children and teens are killed in the US on an average day.
• Number of deaths [in a year]: 33,594
• For every one gun-death, there are two gun-related injuries. (That works out to 67,188 gun-related injuries a year)

via https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/ & https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

So even with EVERY SINGLE FIRE RELATED DEATH, not -just- space-heater caused deaths (which are 50, as stated above) the facts still point to guns being FAR more dangerous than electrical-related fires.

2,560 deaths, 11,075 injuries versus 33,594 deaths, 67,188 injuries. Yeah, keep telling me that space heaters are more dangerous than guns and I'll keep calling you out for being a delusional fool.

 

[Whitelightning777]

The gun fatalities aren't accidents. There are more guns then cars in America but traffic deaths are far greater.

If the 300 million guns have only one magazine with 10 rounds in it, that's 3 billion rounds of ammo. In all likelihood, the number of rounds is far greater. While 30,000 fatalities is a sad thing, compared to the potential number, it shows that guns in the hands of law abiding mentally sane citizens aren't especially with worrying about.

The typical box of rifle ammo has 20 rounds. Handgun ammo is either 25 or most commonly 50 rounds per box.

(I own several.)

Comparing criminal acts with a weapon isn't really the same thing as an accident.

As far as heaters go, note what is said here. Turn them off when you leave the room.

https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resea...ved-in-79-percent-of-fatal-home-heating-fires

 

[Miss Moxie]

First of all, that bullet analogy doesn't mean ANYTHING at all. You're literally just saying "yeah 30,000+ deaths is pretty bad but imagine three billion deaths?!"

Second of all, the point was that guns are more dangerous because they are responsible FIFTEEN TIMES the amount of deaths that fires are responsible for.

Once again, you make absolutely no sense, cherry-pick your responses, and have avoided all hopes of a logical conversation.

So, here I am to call you out once more-- you're a delusional fool.

And who the **** says you're a mentally sane person? You literally said on AB that -one- space heater in your home would draw the attention of the FBI who would assume you were growing marijuana.

 

[Whitelightning777]

The guns are used on purpose for violent crimes which leads to these fatalities.

They also save 2 million lives per year from harm via self defense. 90% of such incidents are resolved without shots being fired. About 3000-4000 homicides are justified ones in self defense. 80% of those shot with a handgun survive.

These deliberate shootings aren't accidents. They aren't due to people not reading the directions or flaws in the design.

It makes more sense to compare guns to Molotov ****tails then to heaters. Those using the heaters do not have a conflict mentality. They are trying to take a shortcut.

They should use a window mounted heat pump instead.

 

[Miss Moxie]

These deliberate shootings aren't accidents.

From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.

via http://www.aftermath.com/content/accidental-shooting-deaths-statistics

Saying there are no accidental shootings is foolish. That is in a five year span, so an average of 560 accidental gun-deaths per year.

Still 510 deaths higher than space heaters, which cause around 50 deaths per year.

You're a delusional fool, once again. Do you ever tire of being proven wrong over and over and over again, or is this some sort of fetish for you?

 

[PanzoN88]

From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.

I am not jumping into the action here, but i just found 150 pages on this subject on the website of the local cbs station, that proves your statement to be right.

By the way on a lighter note, i didn't know you were a member of this forum as well.

 

[Miss Moxie]

I am not jumping into the action here, but i just found 150 pages on this subject on the website of the local cbs station, that proves your statement to be right.

By the way on a lighter note, i didn't know you were a member of this forum as well.

Haha, thanks. Yup, I am. I just don't come here often. I enjoy the dreaded 'other' forum far more.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Someone still pulled the trigger in those shootings. You fail to factor in the number of lives saved by guns each year, 2 million, via self defense.

When that is factored in, the net fatality rate is zero. In 9 out of 10 cases of self defense, no shots are fired. This is for all cases of self defense and or defense of others by civilians and police--a Grand total.

The NRA has excellent stats on this and their armed response blogs of people writing in discussing these events is an excellent resource.

The problems arising from guns occur mainly because of social stratification. When a small elite group of mafia type gangsters and armed government officials have guns while no one else does, it quickly leads to abuses of power.

In places like Vermont and Texas where practically anyone can be armed, incidents are extremely rare.

 

[Miss Moxie]

Someone still pulled the trigger in those shootings. You fail to factor in the number of lives saved by guns each year, 2 million, via self defense.

When that is factored in, the net fatality rate is zero. In 9 out of 10 cases of self defense, no shots are fired. This is for all cases of self defense and or defense of others by civilians and police--a Grand total.

The NRA has excellent stats on this and their armed response blogs of people writing in discussing these events is an excellent resource.

The problems arising from guns occur mainly because of social stratification. When a small elite group of mafia type gangsters and armed government officials have guns while no one else does, it quickly leads to abuses of power.

In places like Vermont and Texas where practically anyone can be armed, incidents are extremely rare.

Again, this isn't a gun-ban debate. You made a thirty minute long video telling people to avoid space heaters which is so stupid. You keep insisting space heaters are dangerous, how NO ONE should have them in their house-- then advocate people having something that is far dangerous. That what this discussion is about-- your blatant hypocrisy. Not about how many lives have been saved by guns blah blah bull**** bull****.

Guns are more dangerous than space heaters because they account for 670 TIMES (33,500 divided by 50) the amount of deaths that space heaters account for.

Something that causes 33,000+ deaths per year is more dangerous than something that causes 50 deaths per year. That's it, them's the brakes. You always change the topic when you've painted yourself into a corner.

So unless you practice what you preach and get rid of EVERYTHING in your house that accounts for more than 50 deaths per year on average, you need to shut up about people using space heaters.

 

[Whitelightning777]

I doubt space heaters save 2 million lives. That's the difference.

Besides, if they're so great, why have centralized heat at all? Why have duct work or furnaces in the first place?

The answer should be obvious. Space heaters are not intended as a long term maintenance free solution for raising temperature within the home. Even if you do get lucky and manage not to burn the place down, your power bill will skyrocket.

Learning to safely heat enclosures or putting a quality window mounted heat pump in your window to go from let's say 70 to 80 degrees for one chosen room is far more affordable and yes, much safer for everyone. This is far more energy efficient as well.

79% of fatal house fires involve space heaters as a cause. Plenty of HOAs (including mine) and rental properties actually ban them, with good reason!! That alone indicates that a better answer should be found.

Do you think that all these bans on them are unnecessary?

 

[Miss Moxie]

I79% of fatal house fires involve space heaters as a cause.

Where is your source for this information? Because I've found evidence to the contrary.

Top causes of fire
Cooking equipment is the leading cause of home structure fires and home fire injuries. Smoking is the leading cause of civilian home fire deaths. Heating equipment is the second most common cause of home fire fatalities.

via https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/By-topic/Top-causes-of-fire

The room temperature is only 68 degrees because that's where my roommate/renter/ex girlfriend keeps it at.

She also randomly smokes when I'm not there which is another reason that a fan helps.

via http://arachnoboards.com/threads/av...-tarantula-advices.280597/page-3#post-2685259

At 51 percent, cooking was the leading cause of residential building fires. Heating caused another 11 percent. These percentages (and those that follow) are adjusted, which proportionally spreads the unknown causes over the other 15 cause categories. The leading causes of residential fatal fires were other unintentional or careless actions at 17 percent and smoking at 14 percent. The cause category “other unintentional or careless actions” includes the misuse of materials or products, abandoned or discarded materials or products, heat source too close to combustibles, and other unintentional actions. The cause was reported as under investigation in another 15 percent of the residential fatal fires.

via https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/fius19th.pdf

METHODS.
We studied fatal and nonfatal residential fires in predominantly rural areas. Using a case–control design, we compared all 151 fatal fires (cases) in single-family dwellings in North Carolina during a 13-month period with a sample of nonfatal fires (controls). Case fires were identified through the medical-examiner system, and control fires that occurred within a few weeks of the case fires were chosen from the records of randomly selected fire departments statewide. For each fire, fire officials were interviewed about the dwelling, the fire, the people involved, and the fire-response system.

RESULTS.
Although heating incidents were the leading cause of fires, fatal fires were more likely to have been caused by smoking (31 percent of fatal fires vs. 6 percent of nonfatal fires).

via http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199209173271207

 

[Whitelightning777]

See the above article that was in an earlier post.

https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resea...ved-in-79-percent-of-fatal-home-heating-fires

I'll put it here again. There are plenty of other like it.

I have no doubt that tobacco and cooking present problems as well. The creepy thing with the heaters is that these are fires in the dead of winter in severe cold, where it shouldn't be all that easy to start a fire in the first place.

If you're running them in a normal temperature instead of extreme cold, it's that much closer to the ignition point. All things being equal, and I'm just guessing here, it should be easier to start a fire at 70 degrees then 7 degrees all things being equal.

-----------

The other thing to consider is insurance company studies on property damage and loss of life for the basis for all the bans on space heaters. Real numbers back it up.


What about people who risk fines or evictions for using these and walking away? It's not a universal solution, or a safe one.

 

[Miss Moxie]

See the above article that was in an earlier post.

https://www.nfpa.org/News-and-Resea...ved-in-79-percent-of-fatal-home-heating-fires

I'll put it here again. There are plenty of other like it.

Let's see plenty more like it. And by plenty more like it, I want to see statistics that prove that space heaters are the leading cause of fire deaths. Also you've got nothing to say to what I've said, again proving that you don't know how to handle being proven wrong.

Edit: And that source is from the same website that says smoking is the leading cause of fire deaths, so.

 

[Miss Moxie]

Oh and look what I found while looking for that quote about your girlfriend smoking-- you know, the leading cause of fire deaths.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1331274&postcount=18

Seems like a lot of people just cannot stand you. CANNOT imagine why. </sarcasm>

 

[Miss Moxie]

Actually, I just read that article more closely.

While only 32 percent of home heating fires involve space heaters, they are involved in 79 percent of home heating fire deaths

They are involved in 79% of HOME HEATING fire deaths-- not all residential fire deaths. Try again.

 

[PanzoN88]

Actually, I just read that article more closely.

While only 32 percent of home heating fires involve space heaters, they are involved in 79 percent of home heating fire deaths

They are involved in 79% of HOME HEATING fire deaths-- not all residential fire deaths. Try again.

I am still not going to jump in sith both feet, but i read the article as well and i found that the article is nearly eight years old.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Oh and look what I found while looking for that quote about your girlfriend smoking-- you know, the leading cause of fire deaths.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1331274&postcount=18

Seems like a lot of people just cannot stand you. CANNOT imagine why. </sarcasm>

I think you and thegreek would get along great on the AK files. In all seriousness, you don't really like anyone. You criticized me, Payden's channel, who knows what else?

As far as tweaking the state of Maryland via high capacity mags, which was what the entire thread was about over there if you bothered to read it at all, I stand by what I said. It's best not to taunt them over it.