Aquairum salt water in substrate, any benefits?

[Scoolman]

Salt poisons soil. Not a good idea.

 

[DewDrop]

I haven't added any more. As far as the research on the salt. It isn't gonna kill the spiders. My rosea moved some aquarium gravel the size of a small green pea and actually burrowed last night in the peat. Looking at these two spiders natural habitat the salinity in the air is pretty good. I do rinse the peat out and microwave it. So the residue will get less and less, but there will always be some and the peat won't be good for plants. I am glad to know the salt doesn't evaporate. I never did get financially involved with salt water fish keeping enough to completely visit the topic and take it to study thoroughly, it is expensive. Both of these species have been subjects of experiments, particularly the avic. Not these particular spiders personally. It has been researched and so far the avic shows some clinical significance with the venom, not necessarily with the bite but what can be formulated with it in the lab for future medical related reasons. I know the info is out there but that I will encounter more of the nay say and boo hoo over the salt idea, given the significance of the spiders to the medical community studying the types, I think I will just stop on the topic while I haven't been drug thoroughly through the forum mud on the idea in the first place. But, if it continues that the rosea burrows and the avic just looks as fantastic and fluffy with a sheen that is photo perfect, and both have a great appetite I'll post back. Like I said it's been a year on a fish salt residue, no problem. Also the ratio I have hasn't even bothered tropical crickets one bit. I don't not feel picked on, but it isn't like I take it as anything other than a friendly nudge to keep studying. Thanks for all the responses on the topic, it does lead to research.

 

[MassExodus]

I haven't added any more. As far as the research on the salt. It isn't gonna kill the spiders. My rosea moved some aquarium gravel the size of a small green pea and actually burrowed last night in the peat. Looking at these two spiders natural habitat the salinity in the air is pretty good. I do rinse the peat out and microwave it. So the residue will get less and less, but there will always be some and the peat won't be good for plants. I am glad to know the salt doesn't evaporate. I never did get financially involved with salt water fish keeping enough to completely visit the topic and take it to study thoroughly, it is expensive. Both of these species have been subjects of experiments, particularly the avic. Not these particular spiders personally. It has been researched and so far the avic shows some clinical significance with the venom, not necessarily with the bite but what can be formulated with it in the lab for future medical related reasons. I know the info is out there but that I will encounter more of the nay say and boo hoo over the salt idea, given the significance of the spiders to the medical community studying the types, I think I will just stop on the topic while I haven't been drug thoroughly through the forum mud on the idea in the first place. But, if it continues that the rosea burrows and the avic just looks as fantastic and fluffy with a sheen that is photo perfect, and both have a great appetite I'll post back. Like I said it's been a year on a fish salt residue, no problem. Also the ratio I have hasn't even bothered tropical crickets one bit. I don't not feel picked on, but it isn't like I take it as anything other than a friendly nudge to keep studying. Thanks for all the responses on the topic, it does lead to research.

I'm not trying to demean your experiment, its just that neither of those species requires moist substrate. With or without salt As long as there's plenty of ventilation it probably won't be an issue though.

 

[SpiderDad61]

Just a little not too much. It sits in the gravel under the dry substrate just providing humidity. It isn't something the spider itself gets on it other than what is in the humidity. I don't want to have to correct you, however the avics do require humidity and so do the g. roseas, so while you say they are not moisture dependent, I have read otherwise. As of now it hasn't been an issue. I am not encouraging anyone to do this, I was merely asking. The avics do have a natural climate in the wild that does endure monsoons. The g. rosea is a desert spider, but benefits from some moisture in it's substrate. No tarantulas are not fish, but the spider genome has been mapped in Beijing, well enough that only a few gaps remain. Those gaps while published as small, are of course quite vast to someone with immense ignorance on the topic as I do. However I do know that electrolytes involve salt. Salt is something that so far through the three sheds the avic has done in the year I have had it, have been smooth. This spider webbed on top of it's water jar. I microwave the substrate for 5 to 10 minutes, every few months, so it isn't like anything harmful can live in that and the salt does help keep it clean. It really is a lot more active in a molt that is on a substrate with salinity. From what I have seen it isn't going to hurt the spider, even if it ingests small amounts. It has freshwater access at all times and does enjoy a mouthful. Thanks for the response it was encouragement to look up more on the salinity.

Yea, not good. U said g rosea and damp, and that's opposite of what this species needs/likes. Wouldn't chance it at all, especially since most experts never heard it nor tried it, which means it's absolutely unnecessary. Only thing ur doing, IMO is risking your T's for a maybe

 

[DewDrop]

It is dried out on the rosea this morning when she is burrowed, the damp is on the bottom where she isn't going to get. The thing is, avics die real easy, they are a pet that gets purchased in a pet store only to have perish in a dry environment or due to shedding issues because of the dry environment only months later. I have had mine a year. My rosea is a spiderling who needs the damp. They both have dry spots. The rosea is burrowing. How often do they do that in captivity? I read rarely. Rarely. But mine has not only burrowed, but moved a couple of pieces of gravel to do just that to try to get to the damp areas. I am no expert. Expert opinions differ wildly. I do follow some published guidelines to make sure the spider has what it needs. I cannot argue with the burrowing rosea or the brilliant fluffy but hydrated and humid look of my avic. The Avic avic actually has such a wonderful coloration it isn't drab at all. I just do not see this as a risk since it has been fine for a year. The salinity fluctuates.

 

[Tomoran]

I cannot argue with the burrowing rosea or the brilliant fluffy but hydrated and humid look of my avic. The Avic avic actually has such a wonderful coloration it isn't drab at all. I just do not see this as a risk since it has been fine for a year. The salinity fluctuates.

I just have to point out that my G. rosea also burrows (kept mostly dry with no salt); I find that to be quite normal behavior from all of my slings. Also, my Avics are quite colorful and gorgeous (again, kept dry with no salt). Again, if it's not harming your spiders, that's great. It's definitely an interesting experiment. However, you're extolling the supposed benefits of salt and pointing to evidence without being able to compare your animals to spiders not kept with salt.

And I don't think that you were drug though the mud at all; I think that folks here have been quite polite in responding to your query, especially as it's an idea that seems quite foreign and odd to some of us. No one has been rude; I think we're just trying to inform you of some potential risks and explain that some of the husbandry information you've read in "published guidelines" is incorrect. Unfortunately, the web is full of misinformation, and this hobby is particularly dogged by inaccurate care sheets. I just urge you to be careful about which information you find online you listen to. The fact that you seemed convinced that G. rosea needs humidity (and indicate the you've read this online) evidences that you might have stumbled on some bad sheets.

You started this post by saying, "These spiders are just dear to us, members of the family." Seeing someone who obviously cared deeply about their animals, I thought I'd share some experience that might help you keep them healthy. The people on this board are actually quite open-minded and supportive, especially compared to some other places. It's just if they hear something that might put spiders at risk, they're going to say so. I hope you'll show us some photos of your little guys, especially the avic, as they sound gorgeous.

 

[DewDrop]

I made no claim to evidence that it is a necessary nutrient in which tarantulas require, I am still trying to find if that is in fact a requirement. Thus the post. It is a question basically pointing to a variable in husbandry that is up for speculation. I also agree that some of the care sheets are also a bit off. Further reason I am suggesting the topic of salinity in habitats to obtain access to information regarding the salinity as a potential role in the tarantula's electrolyte system. I have no evidence that shows definitively that a salinity increase, decrease or all together no salinity is of any benefit or risk. It is a deviation from the norm that has shown only a possible increase in activity with a larger possible role in the multi system functioning of the tarantula left to further question, however this is where it stops for me, at only a question. SO far it has only shown to be of no harm with no documented or verified benefit to the spiders. I am at the point of trying to study any information on the working bodily systems of the tarantulas because husbandry is a topic I have learned enough of to be at a pause for the moment to find further topic to research pertaining to husbandry. The husbandry lesson of tarantula keeping never seems to end. Which is fine as it adds to the decor providing the longevity for the spiders. I am not trying to change tarantula keeping as we know it, only look for added benefits for the spider to have further longevity. The G. Rosea for example is a spider that at this time the definitive life span is unknown. It is estimated that females can live to be twenty plus years of age. The photographs I have are of lower quality without sufficient macro photography to illustrate the spider and show the finer detail that points to the benefits of salinity. Given that the equipment lacks to further study the salinity I am only passing the idea along in case the idea has not been looked at and can be tackled by someone with the macro to illustrate and view to explain benefits or show risks. Surely the idea of salinity in the spiders natural habitat has been explored thus far and is available for study? I understand the importance of the study of these spiders in medical research and do not expect to find any literature at this time. Eventually however there should be some article that illustrates the spiders natural environment and give direction that is valuable to the husbandry of the captive raised spider. The people on this site are just that, people who are nice, have emotion, express ideas and are very thoughtful. I do not expect to make acquaintances I personally interact with in any way other than by written correspondence in forum nor do I plan to purchase from the forum members to minimize risk. However, while there may be some very reputable and great people on here, and I do not doubt that, please be reminded when I start learning, I am not exactly a social butterfly nor is it within my grasp to share much of what I retained, a bad vice I suppose. In no way am I trying to come across knowledgeable or educated on any topic of tarantulas, I am simply trying to learn what I can. It is academic survival of the fittest out here in the forums, and I am only last in line for the academic handouts trying to scavenge what published for public info I can. I do appreciate all the info that comes my way on these forums, it gives me something further to look up. Eventually I will come across how the working spider multisystem functions and can get some information to "sink my teeth" into. If I get grouchy please further be reminded, I do care, I am not trying to upset anyone, that I do thank you, but... I.. must.. learn something new. As far as being drug through the mud, I meant that jovial and in good cheer. I feel comfy here, like everyone is nice. I am enjoying my time. Thanks for all the nice responses.

 

[micheldied]

Avics don't tend to die off because of dry environments, they die because of a lack of ventilation and because people turn their substrate swampy. It's the same with Pokie slings that will refuse to eat if the enclosure is too damp.

 

[DewDrop]

oh ok.. Thanks Mich. So basically what I am reading now pertains to the environment. It seems to indicate that salinity in the soil leads to further erosion , so using a salinity in tarantula husbandry raises issues that are just kind of a controversial thing from many different areas. oooh.. ok I see now it becomes more of a moral issue than one directly pertaining to tarantulas, so it is one that could in fact upset people. I am sorry. I didn't know that salt was such a hot topic like this. I mentioned I was ignorant. So reading about rainfall patterns and salinity, evaporation.. Then it focuses on climate. oooh.. It is one of THOSE topics.. Oops? Never should of brought it up? Sorry if it upset anyone. I didn't know salinity was a huge topic. But you know what? I JUST learned something.

 

[Thistles]

Salinity isn't a huge topic at all. I've never even seen it mentioned before. It's a non-topic as far as I know. You haven't hit upon some sort of taboo or controversy. I think the issue here is that you are a novice keeper who still clearly needs to learn the basics and you are now a bit too ambitious in your experimentation with no foundation. The first step of any experiment is purposeful background research, followed by a thoughtful and solid experimental design. I'm not even sure what you're trying to determine or how what you are doing will support whatever hypothesis you have in mind.

My primary critique of your "experiment" is that there are many uncontrolled variables here that you need to control for including the salinity of the soil, the age and type of tarantula and the sample size. Without controlling for these, you will learn exactly nothing from this sort of experiment.

Furthermore, you say you are trying to find out if it is a "requirement." Based on the fact that literally no one I know of has added salt to their substrate deliberately, I think we can safely say that adding saline is definitely not a requirement to keeping tarantulas healthy.

What do you even mean by "salinity in the air is good" in their native environment? Climate? Erosion? What???

Spiderlings of all species need some moisture in their substrate, but it does not have to be salty. I've had hundreds of spiderlings over the years and never kept them salty. That sample size is far more significant than your single sling. Also, not only is it not necessary to sterilize your substrate initially, it is actually harmful to remove and clean it periodically. You are disturbing your spiders every time you do this. In the wild, these animals will construct a single burrow and live in it until they die (if they're female) or mature and wander off in search of a mate (if male.) Keep your spiderlings in deep, damp substrate and allow it to burrow undisturbed. Rehouse it as needed, but less often is best. There is still some speculation about why adult Grammostola rosea are less likely to burrow than many species, but having to construct a burrow as an adult is unnatural for them. I have a large female and she does dig. A spiderling digging is normal, not some big accomplishment to be credited to salt.

I applaud curiosity and experimentation, but only after you have learned the basics of husbandry. I can't figure out if you think you already know enough or if you realize that you're a beginner because your post was a bit conflicting, but my advice is that you learn more about the two species you already have and then learn the basics of other species before you try to conduct groundbreaking research on tarantula physiology with such a poorly designed experiment.

Here's some background on fish and how that aquarium salt works for them. The salt you are using is a mineral salt for freshwater fish, not for marine fish. The minerals in the water are necessary electrolytes for fish respiration. Their gills don't function properly in distilled water, and many popular fish species come from water with a high dissolved mineral content which this mineral salt mimics. It is useful as a disease preventative because higher-than-ideal salinity slightly irritates the fish, causing them to produce a thicker mucus covering on their bodies. This mucus is part of their immune system and makes it more difficult for parasitic organisms to penetrate their skin. It also changes the osmotic balance, so if a fish has dropsy, which is a swollen body due to water retention, increasing the salinity of the water helps to draw that extra fluid from their bodies.

Do you see how none of this is applicable to tarantulas? The only time I have ever heard of someone deliberately exposing a tarantula to salt was when the spider had a severe case of nematodes coupled with a bacterial infection. The spider's comparatively larger size enabled it to withstand the salinity longer than the parasites could. Incidentally, you realize that mites are a very close relative of tarantulas, right? If something kills them, it isn't good for spiders, either. The difference would be the dose relative to their size.

Apologies for the length of this post and for any weirdness caused by my iPad's autocorrect and predictive typing. We hates it, precious.

 

[DewDrop]

Ok.. So.. Let's look at the G. Rosea natural environment. Dry.. Salt flats, plateau's, geysers, etc.. Low night time temps high day time temps, but not excessively high. Places in the desert that it has NEVER rained even. The history is rich of the place, farmers, even aquaculture. Just a real special piece of the earth that at one time was even discussed in terms of nuclear waste disposal if you can believe that, thankfully, no waste was disposed there.. It is the variety of climate that is particularly appealing about the place and the varied flora and fauna. The place is salty. It is just that simple. As far as the spiders being experiments, they are simply not as such. They are pets. Yes the fish salt is a freshwater tonic. Harmless. If I was inclined to experiment on a spider I'd be in college doing that and have no interest in subjecting the arachnids to an experiment. It is a topic that is quite touchy, climate and global warming, erosion as well. Just one that can cause people to become upset, something I have no intention of doing. As far as it being applicable to tarantulas, their natural environment suggests it is quite relevant. Like I said salt flats on the G. Rosea, the A. Avic lives in Costa Rica, Southern Caribbean and Brazil. Again, salt flats. SO a little salinity is fine. Like you mentioned, no I am not using marine salt. Whatever difference there may be. Marine salt just seems too harsh for a spider. No it's cute Thistles, your always jam packed full of info. Thanks.

 

[micheldied]

Salinity isn't a huge topic at all. I've never even seen it mentioned before. It's a non-topic as far as I know. You haven't hit upon some sort of taboo or controversy. I think the issue here is that you are a novice keeper who still clearly needs to learn the basics and you are now a bit too ambitious in your experimentation with no foundation. The first step of any experiment is purposeful background research, followed by a thoughtful and solid experimental design. I'm not even sure what you're trying to determine or how what you are doing will support whatever hypothesis you have in mind.

My primary critique of your "experiment" is that there are many uncontrolled variables here that you need to control for including the salinity of the soil, the age and type of tarantula and the sample size. Without controlling for these, you will learn exactly nothing from this sort of experiment.

Furthermore, you say you are trying to find out if it is a "requirement." Based on the fact that literally no one I know of has added salt to their substrate deliberately, I think we can safely say that adding saline is definitely not a requirement to keeping tarantulas healthy.

What do you even mean by "salinity in the air is good" in their native environment? Climate? Erosion? What???

Spiderlings of all species need some moisture in their substrate, but it does not have to be salty. I've had hundreds of spiderlings over the years and never kept them salty. That sample size is far more significant than your single sling. Also, not only is it not necessary to sterilize your substrate initially, it is actually harmful to remove and clean it periodically. You are disturbing your spiders every time you do this. In the wild, these animals will construct a single burrow and live in it until they die (if they're female) or mature and wander off in search of a mate (if male.) Keep your spiderlings in deep, damp substrate and allow it to burrow undisturbed. Rehouse it as needed, but less often is best. There is still some speculation about why adult Grammostola rosea are less likely to burrow than many species, but having to construct a burrow as an adult is unnatural for them. I have a large female and she does dig. A spiderling digging is normal, not some big accomplishment to be credited to salt.

I applaud curiosity and experimentation, but only after you have learned the basics of husbandry. I can't figure out if you think you already know enough or if you realize that you're a beginner because your post was a bit conflicting, but my advice is that you learn more about the two species you already have and then learn the basics of other species before you try to conduct groundbreaking research on tarantula physiology with such a poorly designed experiment.

Here's some background on fish and how that aquarium salt works for them. The salt you are using is a mineral salt for freshwater fish, not for marine fish. The minerals in the water are necessary electrolytes for fish respiration. Their gills don't function properly in distilled water, and many popular fish species come from water with a high dissolved mineral content which this mineral salt mimics. It is useful as a disease preventative because higher-than-ideal salinity slightly irritates the fish, causing them to produce a thicker mucus covering on their bodies. This mucus is part of their immune system and makes it more difficult for parasitic organisms to penetrate their skin. It also changes the osmotic balance, so if a fish has dropsy, which is a swollen body due to water retention, increasing the salinity of the water helps to draw that extra fluid from their bodies.

Do you see how none of this is applicable to tarantulas? The only time I have ever heard of someone deliberately exposing a tarantula to salt was when the spider had a severe case of nematodes coupled with a bacterial infection. The spider's comparatively larger size enabled it to withstand the salinity longer than the parasites could. Incidentally, you realize that mites are a very close relative of tarantulas, right? If something kills them, it isn't good for spiders, either. The difference would be the dose relative to their size.

Apologies for the length of this post and for any weirdness caused by my iPad's autocorrect and predictive typing. We hates it, precious.

All of this ^.

Are you sure G. rosea are found right on salt flats, and anywhere close to geysers? Those are some very hostile environments, environments that Ts are not at all built to live in. And Avics are definitely not found anywhere close to salt flats.

What you're doing IS experimenting on the spiders, whether or not they are your pets. Millions of Ts have lived in this hobby, and been bred. I don't know of anyone who has used salt. It's just unnecessary, and it's an unnecessary risk that will likely gather no real usable information. Having to constantly change out the substrate when salt accumulates just stresses out the spiders, and it can be avoided. In the wild, salty or not, this doesn't happen to them.

This isn't an attack, I just find it extremely pointless to be doing what you're doing because there's definitely less harm in not using salt.

 

[DewDrop]

What I am saying, is, that, a little freshwater salt used as a freshwater conditioner hasn't hurt the spiders. I am not saying that you try this or not follow every direction on tarantula husbandry you have learned, been taught or even teach. I simply discovered that I have a healthier Tarantula since using the salt in it's environment and only had a question which as far as I can tell, has been answered going by all the published work on the husbandry of tarantula keeping I have already read. Pointless is perfectly fine to find it. I am only saying the area the spiders are found in have a diverse range of things it their environment, including salt. It is only being decreased with each cleaning of the environment anyway. Buying crickets from certain frog vendors wasn't the best decision as those crickets are fed to increase the longevity of frogs and certainly left a smell I refused to tolerate. Just realize if you would, I am only trying to find out the answer to my question.. Which.. No one knows the answer to. It is alright to not know. Eventually, I will find out. Pointless or not.

 

[kormath]

Ok.. So.. Let's look at the G. Rosea natural environment. Dry.. Salt flats, plateau's, geysers, etc.. Low night time temps high day time temps, but not excessively high. Places in the desert that it has NEVER rained even. The history is rich of the place, farmers, even aquaculture.

You're mixing up your geography Central Chile, the breadbasket of Chile, is the farming and aquaculture area, to moist and humid for the Rosea.

In a bowl surrounded by peaks of the Andes in northern Chile is where the salt flats are.

The geysers, or at least the largest group of vents, are across the salt flats higher up in the Andes.

For the G. Rosea to reach any of these they have to cross the Atacama Desert, the driest desert in the world. Rosea come from the southern edge of the Atacama Desert in Chile, and the desert/scrub regions on the edges of the Atacama in Bolivia and Argentina. Many many miles away from these geysers and salt plains. Rosea were found not to be nomads as first thought, in the wild they burrow and stick to an area, only moving in the event of natural "disasters" like fires, etc.

The point of all this is we don't want to see the spiders needlessly put in danger as others have posted. Salt is a poison to spiders, and used as an alternative pesticide. I'm dreading seeing a post saying your T's are suddenly not doing so well, i'm afraid your "expirement" of how salt benefits is actually an experiment on how long they can last exposed to salt.

 

[~8-legz~]

there is no such thing as "salinity in the air" salinity is the measurement of salt in water.... but anyways as everyone else has already said again and again whether its a small amount or large, your putting your T's at risk for no apparent reason and then acting like its helping them be healthier... and did you really say buying crickets from a frog guy was a bad choice because those crickets were fed to increase longevity in frogs??? come on man, are you trying to figure out the best way to keep your spiders alive or are you just trolling? you act like this is some "hot topic" but we are only trying to help make YOUR spiders happier and now it seems your just trying to get a rouse out of us all...

 

[RedCapTrio]

You'll be hard pressed to find actual facts about this. Salt naturally attracts water, and should help keep the humidity up. I'm no expert and quite new to this myself, but I'd think if it helps like it appears to have, then go for it.

I think this is reverse. If salt attracts water, cause it is a natural desiccant, then this will not humidify the air. It will dry it.

 

[~8-legz~]

+1 yup

 

[kormath]

I think this is reverse. If salt attracts water, cause it is a natural desiccant, then this will not humidify the air. It will dry it.

It's weird the way it works, yes it draws the moisture from the air to the salt, lots of people use salt as a dehumidifier, but the air nearest the salt will be more humid as it's pulling all the moisture to it.

 

[RedCapTrio]

there is no such thing as "salinity in the air" salinity is the measurement of salt in water.... but anyways as everyone else has already said again and again whether its a small amount or large, your putting your T's at risk for no apparent reason and then acting like its helping them be healthier... and did you really say buying crickets from a frog guy was a bad choice because those crickets were fed to increase longevity in frogs??? come on man, are you trying to figure out the best way to keep your spiders alive or are you just trolling? you act like this is some "hot topic" but we are only trying to help make YOUR spiders happier and now it seems your just trying to get a rouse out of us all...

Yes there is. I live my whole life in an archipelago. And I swear to you, we can smell the sea. Therefore, I conclude that salinity is in the air!

Just kidding but, hey, I love the smell of the sea.

 

[kormath]

Yes there is. I live my whole life in an archipelago. And I swear to you, we can smell the sea. Therefore, I conclude that salinity is in the air!

Just kidding but, hey, I love the smell of the sea.

I never noticed a difference in the smell. Went to Hawaii and people were like can't you smell the ocean and i was like ummmm i smell air? Then to Oregon and Washington coast same thing smells like the air at home in the mountains or out on the high desert. Maybe my smeller is broken?