Aquairum salt water in substrate, any benefits?

[DewDrop]

I have an Avicularia Avicularia and a Grammostola Rosea. I use aquarium salt water in the substrate to keep it damp for the Rose hair and moist for the pink toe. I started doing this when I read about how it is like an electrolyte for fish while it is also used to help prevent some disease in fish and figured since my recently shed pink toe was a bit sluggish I'd try it on her cage and see if there were any benefits. I came across some left over salt water aquarium salt mix and figured I might as well use it for something. Within a few hours of a humid environment with salinity in the air increased the pink toe perked right up. I have had her about a year now and she has shed three times. Seems like only yesterday we brought her home from the pet store. Is there anything to this saltwater or is it just assumption? My rose hair spiderling is active and seems do be doing great on a little salinity in it's substrate. I cannot find anything on the addition of salinity to the substrate written in books or in other educational or reference materials. It seems to help the pink toe shed so much smoother and quicker, but of course assumptions are not facts. So far so good. The rose hair is just precious. It was a little sluggish upon arrival, but perked right up on the salinity carrying it's freshly caught cricket around like a toy, eating the whole medium cricket in a matter of hours. These spiders are just dear to us, members of the family. So, apparently salinity doesn't hurt the pink toe or the rosie, but any info on it if anyone comes across any public domain you can let me know if you'd like. Thanks.

 

[kormath]

You'll be hard pressed to find actual facts about this. Salt naturally attracts water, and should help keep the humidity up. I'm no expert and quite new to this myself, but I'd think if it helps like it appears to have, then go for it.

 

[Tomoran]

I, personally, would not take the chance of adding salt to my substrate.

Fish and tarantulas are two different animals, and I wouldn't expect that the benefits of salt for fish would extend to tarantulas. I would worry about the residue getting into water and being ingested by the tarantulas, or a freshly-molted T laying in the salted substrate and drying up. I have no trouble keeping my substrate moist without adding salt, and I would be more worried about the harm it could cause than potential benefits. And, as you mention, it would be very difficult to prove that any perceived positive effects were the result of the salt without running an experiment with a control group. I would guess that your Avic would have molted well with or without the salt.

You also mention two species that are not moisture dependent. Sure, a G. rosea sling can benefit from a moist patch in it's enclosure and a water dish, but I would be very worried about exposing it to moist, salted sub. Avics are also a species that generally do well with dry sub, a water dish, and good ventilation. Some folks like to overflow the dish on occasion, but it definitely isn't a species I'd keep moist. Neither of these species needs a "humid environment." In fact, humid environments can be detrimental to both.

It sounds like you truly love your tarantulas. Unfortunately, I would be very afraid that your experimentation with salt and tarantula husbandry could do more harm than potential good. :/

 

[kormath]

I, personally, would not take the chance of adding salt to my substrate.

Fish and tarantulas are two different animals, and I wouldn't expect that the benefits of salt for fish would extend to tarantulas. I would worry about the residue getting into water and being ingested by the tarantulas, or a freshly-molted T laying in the salted substrate and drying up. I have no trouble keeping my substrate moist without adding salt, and I would be more worried about the harm it could cause than potential benefits. And, as you mention, it would be very difficult to prove that any perceived positive effects were the result of the salt without running an experiment with a control group. I would guess that your Avic would have molted well with or without the salt.

You also mention two species that are not moisture dependent. Sure, a G. rosea sling can benefit from a moist patch in it's enclosure and a water dish, but I would be very worried about exposing it to moist, salted sub. Avics are also a species that generally do well with dry sub, a water dish, and good ventilation. Some folks like to overflow the dish on occasion, but it definitely isn't a species I'd keep moist. Neither of these species needs a "humid environment." In fact, humid environments can be detrimental to both.

It sounds like you truly love your tarantulas. Unfortunately, I would be very afraid that your experimentation with salt and tarantula husbandry could do more harm than potential good. :/

Ah... I didn't think about the burrowing or fresh molted spider and the salt side effects. Thanks for coming to the rescue of my bad advice

 

[Tomoran]

Ah... I didn't think about the burrowing or fresh molted spider and the salt side effects. Thanks for coming to the rescue of my bad advice

Oh, no problem! I don't think I've ever heard of this before, and would just be terrified that it could dry a spider up like jerky. I'm sure that the OP is probably not putting too much in, but I just don't see the risks outweighing the potential benefits.

 

[DewDrop]

Just a little not too much. It sits in the gravel under the dry substrate just providing humidity. It isn't something the spider itself gets on it other than what is in the humidity. I don't want to have to correct you, however the avics do require humidity and so do the g. roseas, so while you say they are not moisture dependent, I have read otherwise. As of now it hasn't been an issue. I am not encouraging anyone to do this, I was merely asking. The avics do have a natural climate in the wild that does endure monsoons. The g. rosea is a desert spider, but benefits from some moisture in it's substrate. No tarantulas are not fish, but the spider genome has been mapped in Beijing, well enough that only a few gaps remain. Those gaps while published as small, are of course quite vast to someone with immense ignorance on the topic as I do. However I do know that electrolytes involve salt. Salt is something that so far through the three sheds the avic has done in the year I have had it, have been smooth. This spider webbed on top of it's water jar. I microwave the substrate for 5 to 10 minutes, every few months, so it isn't like anything harmful can live in that and the salt does help keep it clean. It really is a lot more active in a molt that is on a substrate with salinity. From what I have seen it isn't going to hurt the spider, even if it ingests small amounts. It has freshwater access at all times and does enjoy a mouthful. Thanks for the response it was encouragement to look up more on the salinity.

 

[Tomoran]

Just a little not too much. It sits in the gravel under the dry substrate just providing humidity. It isn't something the spider itself gets on it other than what is in the humidity. I don't want to have to correct you, however the avics do require humidity and so do the g. roseas, so while you say they are not moisture dependent, I have read otherwise. As of now it hasn't been an issue. I am not encouraging anyone to do this, I was merely asking. The avics do have a natural climate in the wild that does endure monsoons. The g. rosea is a desert spider, but benefits from some moisture in it's substrate. No tarantulas are not fish, but the spider genome has been mapped in Beijing, well enough that only a few gaps remain. Those gaps while published as small, are of course quite vast to someone with immense ignorance on the topic as I do. However I do know that electrolytes involve salt. Salt is something that so far through the three sheds the avic has done in the year I have had it, have been smooth. This spider webbed on top of it's water jar. I microwave the substrate for 5 to 10 minutes, every few months, so it isn't like anything can live in that and the salt does help keep it clean. It really is a lot more active in a molt that is on a substrate with salinity. From what I have seen it isn't going to hurt the spider, even if it ingests small amounts. It has freshwater access at all times and does enjoy a mouthful. Thanks for the response it was encouragement to look up more on the salinity.

Ummmm... Are you reading care sheets? Where are you getting these humidity requirements from?

I've kept a G. porteri for going on 20 years, a G. rosea sling for over two. They do NOT require a moist environment or high humidity, and in fact they can't stand moist substrate or humidity. They will literally climb the walls to get away from moist sub. Both of mine have a water dish and do great. I might moisten a corner a bit for the sling, but that's it. As for Avics, I'm well aware of where they come from, but keepers have discovered over the years that many were dying because keepers were obsessing over humidity and killing them with stagnant enclosures with inadequate ventilation. I, too, have Avics, and they are kept with dry sub, a water dish, and good ventilation. Every once in a while, I'll overflow the dish a bit, but that's it. I've never worried about humidity. I keep many species that require deep, moist substrate to thrive, and these aren't two of them. This board is a great place for information; if you don't believe me, do a little research. Folks that successfully keep these species don't worry about the humidity at all.

Obviously, you've had some success with your guys, and if you're adding salt and they are doing well, awesome. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I'm in no way trying to be argumentative, I just think that for folks who have successfully kept many species of Ts for a while, there's some stuff you said that just doesn't fit with what we've learned. I was just pointing out that I have just never heard of this before and don't see the benefit. That said, best of luck with this cool experiment!

 

[Thistles]

As I see it, the only potential benefit would be inhibition of pest organisms in the soil. The tarantula will get all of the electrolytes it needs from its prey. The "perking up" you describe would likely have occurred with just plain water as well, but since we have only one side of this variable we don't really know. I personally have never used salt water and likely never will as it is not necessary.

 

[kormath]

Ummmm... Are you reading care sheets? Where are you getting these humidity requirements from?

I've keep a G. porteri for going on 20 years, a G. rosea sling for over two. They do NOT require a moist environment or high humidity, and in fact they can't stand moist substrate or humidity. They will literally climb the walls to get away from moist sub. Both of mine have a water dish and do great. As for Avics, I'm well aware of where they come from, but keepers have discovered over the years that many were dying because keepers were obsessing over humidity and killing them with stagnant enclosures with inadequate humidity. I, too, have Avics, and they are kept with dry sub, a water dish, and good ventilation. I've never worried about humidity. I keep many species that require deep, moist substrate to thrive, and these aren't two of them. This board is a great place for information; if you don't believe me, do a little research. Folks that successfully keep these species don't worry about the humidity at all.

Obviously, you've had some success with these guys, and if you're adding salt and they are doing well, awesome. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I was just pointing out that I have just never heard of this before and don't see the benefit.

Where'd you read that... The internet, they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true. Where'd you hear that... The internet... Oh look there's my date, i met him on the internet, he's a french model....

 

[Tomoran]

Where'd you read that... The internet, they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true. Where'd you hear that... The internet... Oh look there's my date, i met him on the internet, he's a french model....

I LOVED that commercial.

 

[kormath]

I LOVED that commercial.

Check out the Banned State Farm commercials by David Spates on youtube, hillarious.

 

[Tomoran]

Check out the Banned State Farm commercials by David Spates on youtube, hillarious.

Off to YouTube...thanks!

 

[DewDrop]

As I see it, the only potential benefit would be inhibition of pest organisms in the soil. The tarantula will get all of the electrolytes it needs from its prey. The "perking up" you describe would likely have occurred with just plain water as well, but since we have only one side of this variable we don't really know. I personally have never used salt water and likely never will as it is not necessary.

Well I had some left over aquarium salt and did read that it inhibited pest organisms, so I decided to try it. As far as making it an added expense, no, I haven't done that and haven't decided to continue once the salt runs out. Just a small box of salt like I have should last for years. 16oz of API salt, it isn't indicated for anything but fish, so of course there will be plenty of nay says about it, which is good that there are reminders not to do it to my response because it reminds people that the directions are there to be read and followed not experimented with. How quaint. Anyway. Yet I am way too sensitive to mold and fungus not to add the salt as a preventative. Since I am using microwaved peat moss after discovering soil mites the orbatid variety that can pass tapeworms to a horse if they contract it, that were not infective, thankfully, I figure hey, what's a little salt. Apparently the salt inhibited the orbatids for awhile, until it evaporated down to a useless amount of salinity. But after that experience, no more peat moss ever, ever again, for anything, for me. After 5 minutes in the microwave for the peat and ten for the gravel if anything is living in that substrate that isn't a tarantula, fondly placed back in the habitat once it was all cool and clean, it will be beyond my ability to comprehend.

Oh the heck I have had with getting the best balance for the environment for my tarantulas, but it has been educational and fun.

 

[micheldied]

I wouldn't do it for this reason; you're going to have salt build up in the substrate. It is going to stay in there while the water evaporates, and unless you're changing substrate regularly(which you really shouldn't be for a T), it's going to build up and may cause issues( possibly blocking up book lungs).
We don't know what effects salt can have on Ts, and in most places where those two Ts are found, there isn't much salinity at all(G. rosea in deserts, and Avicularia up in the trees). IMO it's unnecessary, and an unnecessary risk. But, they are your Ts and if you want to experiment, no one's going to stop you.

 

[~8-legz~]

I would probably slap someone if they ever put salt in my enclosures

 

[kormath]

a quick google search shows salt is very very bad for spiders.

First hit on the search -
Salt is a natural type of spider poison, so it makes an effective Portland pest control aide. Dissolve an ounce of salt (1/8 cup) in a gallon of warm water, and pour the saline mixture into a spray bottle. Spray the salty solution directly onto a spider to kill it. Salt water is also effective at killing spider nests.

I would rehouse those spiders quickly and remove the salt.

 

[~8-legz~]

my guess is you will end up with salt built up on the glass/plastic and the T will eventually get dehydrated and start to drink from its water dish a lot and then probably die.... T's are not fish and will not fair well with built up salt... it may not be this month but every time you add salty water in there the water will dissipate and dissolve and the salt will remain there... after time there will be deposits of salt in there and they will be bad for your T's

 

[~8-legz~]

the spiders probably "perked up" because it wanted out! the rosea wont like wet substrate to begin with but salty substrate is probably gonna make quick work of him/her... I would change them out to new clean sub STAT... the avic can handle moist sub (still not needed) but the g. rosea will climb walls to get off it...

 

[MassExodus]

Neither of those two species need moist substrate. From the sounds of it that experiment could endanger them, but please let me know how it works out

 

[Thistles]

I use plain peat without issue. There are likely to be small colonies of mites living in any enclosure, but they cause no issues provided their numbers remain low. They are often introduced on feeders, so even if your substrate is sterile to begin with it won't stay sterile for long. If you are especially concerned about mites you could introduce isopods to eat any detritus left by the tarantula. This should out-compete mites. I just keep my enclosures dry if the spiders will tolerate it. For the moisture-dependent ones I keep them clean and have had no issues, but for the large ones I have added some isopods.

There's no harm in experimenting, so please don't feel picked on. I approve of figuring out what works best through experimentation and not being afraid to push boundaries. That said, check into things first. @kormath's brief research seems to indicate that this is a very bad idea.

As others have said, the tarantulas you have don't require moist substrate. That alone will prevent mites and mold.

If you decide to continue using salt, be aware that it will not evaporate. Just adding new water after your initial addition of saline will redissolve the salts. If you continue to add saline you will just increase the salinity of your substrate with every addition. It is the same for fish, so perhaps you already knew that. I have the same salt on hand, but I just use it for my bettas.