Hybrids

[MassExodus]

I'm interested to hear people's opinions on hybrid species, bred specifically for color, size or other desirable traits. Obviously I'm not talking about flooding the hobby with hybrids sold as pure species...so let's not get crazy. I'm talking about hybrid breeding projects with total transparency and detailed reports and records. I just want to hear people's honest, considered opinion on this topic. Don't be shy. It's not like this is a highly populated forum and we all have better things to do All comments are welcome, even the "shut up, Mass" ones.

 

[Kymura]

Think it would and could be very interesting as long as they were honest as you stated.
As long as its researched somewhat and not just arbitrarily throwing two T's together and hoping for the best it might
end up creating an awesome type of T.(wonder if it would be sterile as some hybrids mammals are....)

I know very little about tarantula breeding other then a few vids or articles so I'm not sure how it would all work,
But I for one wouldn't mind following a responsible breeder and seeing results.
Doesn't matter to me what my T's are as long as I like them and
can keep them healthy. Not like they come with a pedigree.

 

[MassExodus]

Think it would and could be very interesting as long as they were honest as you stated.
As long as its researched somewhat and not just arbitrarily throwing two T's together and hoping for the best it might
end up creating an awesome type of T.(wonder if it would be sterile as some hybrids mammals are....)

I know very little about tarantula breeding other then a few vids or articles so I'm not sure how it would all work,
But I for one wouldn't mind following a responsible breeder and seeing results.
Doesn't matter to me what my T's are as long as I like them and
can keep them healthy. Not like they come with a pedigree.

Well I've found a few videos on projects, but that's about it. I found a video of a B vagans/albopilosum hybrid...it looked just like a large vagans, with very long curly hairs...it's what made me start thinking about the whole thing. Very cool tarantula. The guy that posted the video was from Russia, or somewhere near Russia, as far as I could tell from the strange writing. I could also tell by the comments that people were giving him hell, even though I couldn't read what was said, the "tone" was unmistakable. Either that or they were very excited at watching the video..so I guess opinions are similar over there as well..anyway, I've since went back to find it and can't. I guess he took it down, or I was looking in the wrong place..I wish I could find the link, I'd like to watch it again and share it with people.

 

[MassExodus]

Hmmm, so I found another video on the same cross, but it's a different video and much less impressive looking spider. I also found out that vagans/albopilosums crossbreed readily and the offspring are usually fertile...apparently the market was flooded with them in certain European countries, with cross bred tarantulas being sold as pure curlys or pure vagans, whichever they resembled the most, I suppose... The appearances of the hybrids varies greatly..and after seeing the anger and confusion caused by these cross breedings and fraudulent business dealings, among those countries' hobbyists, I'm a bit put off. But as I said, I'm not talking about this kind of dishonest crap..Jesus, I'm angry myself.. I still think the idea is a good one, if conducted correctly.

 

[Kymura]

i agree, carefully conducted as you originally posted, and done honestly. I don't see the harm, and I can see the benefits if it was done documented.
New interesting colorforms, less significant venom, etc etc.
There are always a few purists that negate any changes, some have valid reasons others just use it as the excuse to have something to be upset about.

 

[spidey noob]

@MassExodus
i dont see how any one could breed hybrids responcebly, once u have a sucsesfull breading u could possible have 300/400 hybrid slings !
u wouldnt be able to keep them all, so u would have to cull most of them or sell them on neather of witch is being responceable (IMO)

 

[MassExodus]

@MassExodus
i dont see how any one could breed hybrids responcebly, once u have a sucsesfull breading u could possible have 300/400 hybrid slings !
u wouldnt be able to keep them all, so u would have to cull most of them or sell them on neather of witch is being responceable (IMO)

I agree that culling the majority of the slings would be kind of terrible, but many would be kept and bred back, that would be part of the program, so many would survive. People in the hobby allow nature to take its course all the time when breeding..I would actually have to let many reach maturity just for selective breeding purposes. I realize this will require a lot of time, space, and housing. I have a whole shop for those purposes. This is a long term, time, money and record intensive project im talking about, not just one pair and one sac..many pairs, many sacs..keeping full sacs just isn't going to be feasible, so yes, some will be culled...l think the sacrifices would be worth the gain. This is all just theory right now, its going to take a lot of preparation and money just to kick it off. I understand where you're coming from though. I don't like the idea of culling either, its just that it would be necessary.

 

[Tuskedwings]

It's an interesting idea but I like pure breed spiders they seem more stable to me, now if there is a way to say make them more durable and hardy than they already are i would like ti see that

 

[Kymura]

Well, I'm not sure about that, but I am going to spend some time researching this a bit.
Hybrids in many species happen in nature, so no way of knowing the actual stability of them without some longer term research.Unfortunately that does involve culling a few, In this situation I would assume that would involve allowing them to cull one another as slings ensuring the survival of the more fit individuals for further research/breeding. I wonder how many generations it would take to have them develop unique characteristics or coloring that bred true...

also, I'm sure that they wouldn't have culled to harshly or sold, with as many enthusiasts as there are just on this board there are bound to be folks willing to raise a six pack of slings for the researcher.

 

[RedCapTrio]

Didn't Jon3800 have a couple of hybrids in his collection? I may have seen them in a feeding video of his.

 

[MassExodus]

Didn't Jon3800 have a couple of hybrids in his collection? I may have seen them in a feeding video of his.

Yeah, I know for sure he has a boehmei baumgarteni hybrid

 

[Scoolman]

NO!

 

[MassExodus]

Indeed.

 

[Scoolman]

NO!
Say NO to Tarantula crossbreeding and hybridization!

Here is why:

Currently there are over 100 genera and over 900 different species of Tarantulas in the world. Only a fraction of those species can be found in the hobby today. Out of those few genera Scientists and Hobbyists are still not 100% sure what species under some of those genera are.
Aphonopelma, Avicularia, Ischnocolus und Pamphobeteus are only a few of them that are in need of a major classification clean up.

Creating a hybrid Tarantula in captivity is a great concern to most hobbyists and Tarantula breeders/dealers today.

Just take one persons fascination with creating a hybrid Tarantula, what do you think that person will do with 100's of them? Can s/he sell them, no, most likely not! Either they will be given away or even worse set out into the wild.

If given away, no one can guarantee that person will not continue to breed that hybrid Tarantula in the future, you get the point?

Now let's take a look at a hybridized Tarantula in the wild! What if this hybrid Tarantula now breeds with the current population of a local species? Some of our species are in need of a thorough classification, this will make it even worse if a hybrid has now passed on his gene if fertile.

Keep the pure breeds pure and say NO to irresponsible Tarantula crossbreeding and hybridization.

What are the advantage and disadvantages of owning a hybridized Tarantula?

Advantages:
-You have one Tarantula that looks different from any other one.

Disadvantages:

-In the past scientist and hobbyists have documented that many species are often infertile and can have other side effects and complications throughout their lifetime.

-Some spiderlings/adults are already very difficult to differentiate from one species to another, now imagine trying to tell a hybrid apart?

What can you do to prevent hybridization from Happening?

1. Only breed true Tarantula species that you know come from a reliable source (breeder/dealer or hobbyists you trust).

2. Don't breed different species.

3. Don’t purchase or accept free hybrid Tarantulas.

4. If a hybrid ends up in your collection, don't breed it and most of all don't give it away. It must stay in your collection.

 

[MassExodus]

Thank you for your input. I started really thinking about it, and writing things down, and did a little math..and I don't have the time or patience to try it. If I hit the lotto and didn't have to work, nothing would stop me.

 

[micheldied]

NO!
Say NO to Tarantula crossbreeding and hybridization!

Here is why:

Currently there are over 100 genera and over 900 different species of Tarantulas in the world. Only a fraction of those species can be found in the hobby today. Out of those few genera Scientists and Hobbyists are still not 100% sure what species under some of those genera are.
Aphonopelma, Avicularia, Ischnocolus und Pamphobeteus are only a few of them that are in need of a major classification clean up.

Creating a hybrid Tarantula in captivity is a great concern to most hobbyists and Tarantula breeders/dealers today.

Just take one persons fascination with creating a hybrid Tarantula, what do you think that person will do with 100's of them? Can s/he sell them, no, most likely not! Either they will be given away or even worse set out into the wild.

If given away, no one can guarantee that person will not continue to breed that hybrid Tarantula in the future, you get the point?

Now let's take a look at a hybridized Tarantula in the wild! What if this hybrid Tarantula now breeds with the current population of a local species? Some of our species are in need of a thorough classification, this will make it even worse if a hybrid has now passed on his gene if fertile.

Keep the pure breeds pure and say NO to irresponsible Tarantula crossbreeding and hybridization.

What are the advantage and disadvantages of owning a hybridized Tarantula?

Advantages:
-You have one Tarantula that looks different from any other one.

Disadvantages:

-In the past scientist and hobbyists have documented that many species are often infertile and can have other side effects and complications throughout their lifetime.

-Some spiderlings/adults are already very difficult to differentiate from one species to another, now imagine trying to tell a hybrid apart?

What can you do to prevent hybridization from Happening?

1. Only breed true Tarantula species that you know come from a reliable source (breeder/dealer or hobbyists you trust).

2. Don't breed different species.

3. Don’t purchase or accept free hybrid Tarantulas.

4. If a hybrid ends up in your collection, don't breed it and most of all don't give it away. It must stay in your collection.

Pretty much all of this. We already have Ts misidentified all the time, and we have too many T species that haven't even been described accurately. Any hybrids bred "responsibly" will give irresponsible breeders stupid ideas, and then we'll have hybrids of unknown genes all over the place.

Most hybrids I've seen just end up looking more drab than either parent species. Also, as far as we know hybrids cannot be bred(thank god). We have hundreds of species in the hobby, there really isn't a need for hybrids. People need to realize these aren't dogs(which are really all of the same species).

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Hybrids can be bred otherwise there would be no need for concern as the hybrid offspring would never amount to anything. Generally tarantula people run around with blinkers on. It would be almost impossible to prove, but my feeling is that most people have hybrids in their collections. How many breeders ever check their spiders against the description papers before putting them together? More and more people are breeding spiders and just take the word of the breeder or what they found on Google or what people identify the spider as from a picture. Don't believe me? How many people on here can say that they have compared any of their spiders to their original description papers? Even if you are not breeding them. How do you know what you have is correctly labelled? Is that what the breeder told you? Compared it to pictures of the spider on the net? I think if we really sit down and think about genera where the species can be confused, we are in for a major shock. Avicularia, Brachypelma, Chilobrachys, Hysterocrates, Pamphobeteus, Grammostola, Ceratogyrus, Poecilotheria are just a few that come to mind.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Anyone want to take a guess on this species of Ceratogyrus?

 

[micheldied]

Hybrids can be bred otherwise there would be no need for concern as the hybrid offspring would never amount to anything. Generally tarantula people run around with blinkers on. It would be almost impossible to prove, but my feeling is that most people have hybrids in their collections. How many breeders ever check their spiders against the description papers before putting them together? More and more people are breeding spiders and just take the word of the breeder or what they found on Google or what people identify the spider as from a picture. Don't believe me? How many people on here can say that they have compared any of their spiders to their original description papers? Even if you are not breeding them. How do you know what you have is correctly labelled? Is that what the breeder told you? Compared it to pictures of the spider on the net? I think if we really sit down and think about genera where the species can be confused, we are in for a major shock. Avicularia, Brachypelma, Chilobrachys, Hysterocrates, Pamphobeteus, Grammostola, Ceratogyrus, Poecilotheria are just a few that come to mind.

Have hybrids been bred successfully, and their offspring as well? I'd like to see some documented proof. Asking out of interest, because I've never heard of them breeding successfully, or anyone trying, not that I think you're lying.

 

[Ceratogyrus]

Like I said this is all just my take on the subject after being involved in spiders for 20 years. Species such as vagans in the hobby are seriously mixed up when you look at pictures of them in the wild. Same with albopilosum. I reckon albovagans are more common in the hobby than everyone thinks. Lasiodora are just as mixed up. I don't know anyone that has intentionally hybridized and then bred the offspring together, but when you look at all the accidental hybrids out there then I think it is happening on a daily basis. No proof, just my feeling on the subject.