Euthanasia - Whens and Hows

[Prudance]

I've seen a few threads where elderly or injured tarantulas are nearing the end and would like to get some perspective on this delicate topic.

I have several mature male tarantulas, two of which are showing signs of decline. They are drinking lots of water, losing interest in food and having trouble holding themselves up. It's a sad process to watch and I have done it several times before.

So at what point would you consider "putting down" your tarantula? What signs would you look for? What would your reasons be? What method would you use? Or would you let nature take it's course? What reasons would you share with us for your decision?

 

[Thistles]

My preferred method of MM euthanasia is a female of his species. Old man gets a last hurrah, girly gets a good meal and if I'm lucky I get a sac.

 

[Thistles]

I have only ever euthanized 2 tarantulas. One was a female Ceratogyrus meridionalis that began exhibiting bizarre symptoms right before I was hospitalized. I took her with me and hand-watered her for several weeks. After I was back home, another tarantula, one of my favorites, began showing the same symptoms. Given my inability to rehabilitate the first, I euthanized both by freezing for fear of the disease spreading. I still haven't gotten another Poecilotheria subfusca HL or C. meridionalis. They were good girls. R.I.P.

 

[kormath]

I don't have any adults yet. When i do i'll go the route @Thistles posted. If i get females from my slings they'll live with me till they reach that old age where they stop eating and start losing balance etc. Then it's off to the freezer. I think that's the most humane way to end them. Males i'll try and trade off for slings or freeze them if I can't.

I don't believe in letting animals suffer just so i can be with them longer. Once they get to that stage i'll put them out of their misery or trade them off if possible.

 

[Enn49]

I currently have 2 MMs and am dreading the day I will need to make that decision but I guess when the time comes it will have to be the freezer for them rather than watch then suffer.

 

[Thistles]

I currently have 2 MMs and am dreading the day I will need to make that decision but I guess when the time comes it will have to be the freezer for them rather than watch then suffer.

Buy girls for them! Tigger and Falcon need to make more little ones!

 

[Enn49]

Buy girls for them! Tigger and Falcon need to make more little ones!

I know I should but I really don't want to breed, I couldn't cope with all of those tiny slings. I have tried to find a reliable breeder to take them but no one wanted them.

 

[Kymura]

If I end up with males I have every intention of allowing them to go make more tarantulas with a lovely lady friend, hopefully in exchange for a few slings.
Otherwise I will not freeze them. Everything I read says they don't suffer pain the same way we do and they don't honestly have the cognitive functions to be afraid or even know if they are dieing. Unfortunately no one can say positively that they don't experience some type of pain and let's face it...freezing is painful.
So, I'll allow them to curl up where they are comfortable, in the enclosure that's been their home until they simply pass away.


http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/372/lega/witn/shelly-e.htm

Although it is impossible to know the subjective experience of another animal with certainty, the balance of the evidence suggests that most invertebrates do not feel pain. The evidence is most robust for insects, and, for these animals, the consensus is that they do not feel pain6.

 

[kormath]

If I end up with males I have every intention of allowing them to go make more tarantulas with a lovely lady friend, hopefully in exchange for a few slings.
Otherwise I will not freeze them. Everything I read says they don't suffer pain the same way we do and they don't honestly have the cognitive functions to be afraid or even know if they are dieing. Unfortunately no one can say positively that they don't experience some type of pain and let's face it...freezing is painful.
So, I'll allow them to curl up where they are comfortable, in the enclosure that's been their home until they simply pass away.


http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/372/lega/witn/shelly-e.htm

Although it is impossible to know the subjective experience of another animal with certainty, the balance of the evidence suggests that most invertebrates do not feel pain. The evidence is most robust for insects, and, for these animals, the consensus is that they do not feel pain6.

to me that is allowing them to suffer. But like you said nobody knows whether they really suffer or not. I believe there is suffering at the end stages, so i'll euthanize them. Freezing isn't painful, you go numb and fall asleep before there's any pain.

 

[Kymura]

to me that is allowing them to suffer. But like you said nobody knows whether they really suffer or not. I believe there is suffering at the end stages, so i'll euthanize them. Freezing isn't painful, you go numb and fall asleep before there's any pain.

Well it's not a debate. There's no right or wrong answers. I disagree but that's my personal opinion. I don't think any of us here would willingly or knowingly cause undo suffering to any creature under our care.
Op asked for what we as individuals would do.

 

[Thistles]

I know I should but I really don't want to breed, I couldn't cope with all of those tiny slings. I have tried to find a reliable breeder to take them but no one wanted them.

Pity. Well, I know you'll love them until the end.

 

[Enn49]

Pity. Well, I know you'll love them until the end.

Oh, I will. They're both so beautiful and I see more of both of them now since they matured.

 

[MassExodus]

How can a living thing not feel pain? Their "brains" look like a cluster of nerves. I'm assuming electrical impulses travel these pathways..no pain? A sharp electrical impulse from say, cutting a leg off..that wouldn't travel through them like the fire of hell? In a system like that?

 

[Prudance]

Thank you everyone for your input. It's nice to see different perspectives. I am going to have to contemplate this some.

 

[Kymura]

Thank you everyone for your input. It's nice to see different perspectives. I am going to have to contemplate this some.

I feel like with most of us, whatever we decide is what we truly believe is best for the creatures in our care. I do believe in euthanasia in some cases, extremely bad or wet molts, irreparable damage, or traumatic ruptures. Just not age. That to me isn't suffering so much as just slowing down.

 

[Whitelightning777]

I found this thread by accident and it's old but I think I have a point to contribute.

We all know that CO2 is used as a knock out for first aid etc. Put it in a ventilated catch cup within a larger container elevated. Add baking soda and vinegar. Seal it up airtight and then freeze it an hour later and overnight. Logically that should eliminate pain.

When mammals are put to sleep, it's usually anesthetic and then something to stop the heart.

This is similar. With mature males, I'm researching whether or not removing the bulbous pedipalps can enable them to survive the fatal ultimate molt or might kickstart them into a longer lifespan if their body tries to regrow them instead of dying.

 

[Enn49]

I found this thread by accident and it's old but I think I have a point to contribute.

We all know that CO2 is used as a knock out for first aid etc. Put it in a ventilated catch cup within a larger container elevated. Add baking soda and vinegar. Seal it up airtight and then freeze it an hour later and overnight. Logically that should eliminate pain.

When mammals are put to sleep, it's usually anesthetic and then something to stop the heart.

This is similar. With mature males, I'm researching whether or not removing the bulbous pedipalps can enable them to survive the fatal ultimate molt or might kickstart them into a longer lifespan if their body tries to regrow them instead of dying.

I'd rather let them die peacefully and naturally in the homes they have known than subject them to the stress of moving them. When any creature is subjected to freezing their body fluids expand caused pain therefore more stress.

 

[Dave Jay]

This debate is never-ending in the fish keeping world. People are steering away from freezing and turning more to CO2, using soda water as the source. Personally for fish I think that would be stressful too, essentially suffocating. Clove oil is recommended by the rspca, as is spiking(spike through the brain).
The method I had used for years is cooling in the fridge until comatose, then freezing to kill, in that way there is no stress or pain from fluids freezing, they have already slowed down and slipped into a comatose state before being exposed to freezing temperatures.(edit- I should state that the fish were bagged as though to travel, therefore the water would gradually cool down)
I have tried carbon dioxide with a pigeon and there was a lot of thrashing about before death, not something I would care to repeat, far from slipping quietly away as I was advised.
I haven't been faced with having to euthanase an invert yet, but I have accidentally killed crickets through leaving them in the fridge too long. Some revive when warmed up, but when left too long in the fridge the majority have actually died from the low temps. I guess when faced with it, I'll probably use the fridge then freezer method unless I find something better.

 

[Whitelightning777]

This keeper has an interesting perspective.

 

[Dave Jay]

This keeper has an interesting perspective.

I see where he's coming from trying to make it as quick as possible, and it's a good point that a sudden shock may spur them into action. But I still feel that a gradual cooling slowing the metabolism until they are comatose eliminates any pain that may result from fluids freezing, which is most peoples argument against freezing being humane.