P. metallica - what has happened? :'(

[Gizalba]

Hi,

I had Dory, my Poecilotheria metallica for 5 years, 3 months.
She has moulted 5 times during those years as I have recorded every one.
She was around 1.5cm legspan when I got her and she died the other day at about 4cm legspan :'(

I am devastated and I wondered if anyone has any ideas what happened?

No idea whether she was male or female btw, just saw her as female. Will post pics of her dead body below.

She always seemed to eat well; before her last moult she had got fat so I eased of the food a bit after that. She also never seemed to get stuck in a moult. After the last moult I could finally start to see her blue and yellow colours forming. When she died I 'think' her abdomen looked a healthy size?

The only strange thing was how slow she was growing; never seemed to put on much size with any of the moults. I do keep my tarantulas at lower temps than some keepers, I make sure it never goes below 18 degrees C at night using a heater in winter and in day time it can range from 21-26 degrees depending on the time of year.

I know this can slow growth but I have also raised a P. ornata large sling to mature male (matured about a year ago) in exactly the same rooms/temps (have moved house 3 times during that time).

 

[Eighth Eye Blind]

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's never easy . . . especially when it's a critically endangered species. Thanks for taking such good care of her while she was with you.

I make sure it never goes below 18 degrees C at night using a heater in winter and in day time it can range from 21-26 degrees depending on the time of year.

Don't blame yourself for this. Those temps are just fine. It's going to vary from species to species, but we know for a hard biological fact that the perfect temp range for keeping an A. hentzi healthy is 20°C-27°C. P. metallica's native habitat is in the same climate zone as part of A. hentzi's so you kept her at exactly the right temp. Don't kick yourself for this.

In fact, given how slowly she grew, I'd bet she had a genetic problem from the start that affected her metabolism. That's not unexpected in a species like P. metallica that has gotten heavily inbred in captivity. It's a sad loss but take comfort that there's nothing to blame yourself over.

 

[Tarantula Trooper]

Sorry for your T's passing! EEB brought up a great point about the growth rate of your Mettalica in that is truly a glacial growth rate for a Pokie! I lost my MM Psalmopeous Reduncus about three weeks after he molted. He had eaten and seemed to be doing great. Found him laying at the bottom of his enclosure dead as a hammer and no death curl! On the outside looked like a perfectly healthy spider and won't ever know what took him. Try not to beat yourself up over it much as sometimes spiders die and their is just no seemingly good reason for it. Again, my condolences.

 

[Gizalba]

I'm so sorry for your loss. It's never easy . . . especially when it's a critically endangered species. Thanks for taking such good care of her while she was with you.



Don't blame yourself for this. Those temps are just fine. It's going to vary from species to species, but we know for a hard biological fact that the perfect temp range for keeping an A. hentzi healthy is 20°C-27°C. P. metallica's native habitat is in the same climate zone as part of A. hentzi's so you kept her at exactly the right temp. Don't kick yourself for this.

In fact, given how slowly she grew, I'd bet she had a genetic problem from the start that affected her metabolism. That's not unexpected in a species like P. metallica that has gotten heavily inbred in captivity. It's a sad loss but take comfort that there's nothing to blame yourself over.

Thanks so much for the reply, reassurance about the temperatures and possible explanation. I hadn't thought about that about them being heavily inbred in captivity, is this because their real life habitats are being destroyed so there aren't enough wild ones anymore to add to the breeding pool? I am sad the future I imagined for her with her full sized colours has gone but it's comforting in a way if she had a genetic condition that hopefully she had lived to adulthood, just a miniature version.

 

[Gizalba]

Sorry for your T's passing! EEB brought up a great point about the growth rate of your Mettalica in that is truly a glacial growth rate for a Pokie! I lost my MM Psalmopeous Reduncus about three weeks after he molted. He had eaten and seemed to be doing great. Found him laying at the bottom of his enclosure dead as a hammer and no death curl! On the outside looked like a perfectly healthy spider and won't ever know what took him. Try not to beat yourself up over it much as sometimes spiders die and their is just no seemingly good reason for it. Again, my condolences.

Aw, sorry to hear about your reduncus when he looked like he was doing well my mature male reduncus years ago didn't last long after his final moult either. Thanks for the confirmation that Dory's growth was abnormally slow, I have quite a few slow growing species so I had forgotton that pokies were meant to grow much much faster.

 

[Eighth Eye Blind]

I hadn't thought about that about them being heavily inbred in captivity, is this because their real life habitats are being destroyed so there aren't enough wild ones anymore to add to the breeding pool?

All species of Poecilotheria are considered threatened or endangered. Because of this, they're covered by an international conservation treaty known as CITES that prohibits unregulated trade of those species between pretty much every country on the planet. You can't legally import or export a Poecilotheria species without special, very expensive, and difficult-to-obtain permits from both the country of shipment and the country of destination.

This means that all of the P. metallica (legally) in the hobby were bred from individuals exported from India between the rediscovery of the species in 2001 and the time it was protected under CITES in 2019. There's obviously some illegal trade still going on but given the small wild population, the relatively short time they were legally available, and the small number of people who actually breed them in captivity, it's pretty safe to assume that every P. metallica in the hobby is inbred to a large degree.

Fortunately, more and more T breeders are adopting ethical practices and bringing in new breeding stock instead of just crossing the same individuals over and over again. Animals that are already in the hobby can't be used to replenish or reestablish a wild population so it's not unethical to own a CITES-listed species . . . don't feel bad about that. But if you get another one please do make sure that it comes from a captive breeder who mixes his stock. That way the animals that we have in the hobby can stay as genetically healthy as they can.

 

[cowens]

That glacial growth rate is bugging me too — with most pokies you'd expect more size gain per molt, even at cooler temps. Could be she was genetically weak or dealing with something chronic that wouldn't show up on the surface but would finally catch up with her at a molt. Still totally not your fault, but it might explain why the death felt so sudden when something was actually off the whole time.

 

[Gizalba]

All species of Poecilotheria are considered threatened or endangered. Because of this, they're covered by an international conservation treaty known as CITES that prohibits unregulated trade of those species between pretty much every country on the planet. You can't legally import or export a Poecilotheria species without special, very expensive, and difficult-to-obtain permits from both the country of shipment and the country of destination.

This means that all of the P. metallica (legally) in the hobby were bred from individuals exported from India between the rediscovery of the species in 2001 and the time it was protected under CITES in 2019. There's obviously some illegal trade still going on but given the small wild population, the relatively short time they were legally available, and the small number of people who actually breed them in captivity, it's pretty safe to assume that every P. metallica in the hobby is inbred to a large degree.

Fortunately, more and more T breeders are adopting ethical practices and bringing in new breeding stock instead of just crossing the same individuals over and over again. Animals that are already in the hobby can't be used to replenish or reestablish a wild population so it's not unethical to own a CITES-listed species . . . don't feel bad about that. But if you get another one please do make sure that it comes from a captive breeder who mixes his stock. That way the animals that we have in the hobby can stay as genetically healthy as they can.

Thanks very much! I have had a search and found that The Spider shop uk is probably the best bet once I become ready to start again with a new pokie.

 

[Gizalba]

All species of Poecilotheria are considered threatened or endangered. Because of this, they're covered by an international conservation treaty known as CITES that prohibits unregulated trade of those species between pretty much every country on the planet. You can't legally import or export a Poecilotheria species without special, very expensive, and difficult-to-obtain permits from both the country of shipment and the country of destination.

This means that all of the P. metallica (legally) in the hobby were bred from individuals exported from India between the rediscovery of the species in 2001 and the time it was protected under CITES in 2019. There's obviously some illegal trade still going on but given the small wild population, the relatively short time they were legally available, and the small number of people who actually breed them in captivity, it's pretty safe to assume that every P. metallica in the hobby is inbred to a large degree.

Fortunately, more and more T breeders are adopting ethical practices and bringing in new breeding stock instead of just crossing the same individuals over and over again. Animals that are already in the hobby can't be used to replenish or reestablish a wild population so it's not unethical to own a CITES-listed species . . . don't feel bad about that. But if you get another one please do make sure that it comes from a captive breeder who mixes his stock. That way the animals that we have in the hobby can stay as genetically healthy as they can.

Thanks very much! I have had a search and found that The Spider shop uk is probably the best bet once I become ready to start again with a new pokie.