What is this white stuff? :/

[Gizalba]

Hi,

What is the white stuff below his fangs? It looks like mould I see forming with the decomposition when a tarantula has died but he is very much alive!

Misty was my first tarantula and he has been a mature male about 3 and a half years. I have had him about 5 1/2 years since he was a 5cm juvenile so I assume he is at least 6 years old and getting towards the end of his life? He is still very active but this white stuff is worrying me. Is it a sign of old age or could it be an illness?

Thanks!

View attachment DSC06982.JPGView attachment DSC06980.JPG

 

[Gizalba]

Not sure if the images are working...

 

[m0lsx]

It may be tarantula poop, or it could be that he needs to wipe his face after a meal. But normally it is nothing to worry about. If it were damp, foam like, then that would be a concern. But it looks dry & harmless, although I am not sure of what it is.

 

[Gizalba]

It may be tarantula poop, or it could be that he needs to wipe his face after a meal. But normally it is nothing to worry about. If it were damp, foam like, then that would be a concern. But it looks dry & harmless, although I am not sure of what it is.

thanks very much for the reply! Will keep an eye on it.

 

[Eighth Eye Blind]

I tend to agree with m0lsx that this is probably nothing to worry about, but . . .

Just to be on the extremely safe side I would isolate that T from any others that you have ASAP. Take it to a different room as far away as possible that has no other specimens in it. Wash your hands thoroughly after handling that T's cage and keep it's food and substate separated from the rest of your herd. Treat the T just like you normally do and wait to see what happens over the coming three or four weeks.

The concern here is a nematode infection. What I see in the pics doesn't really look like one but anytime you see white stuff around a T's mouth you have to keep it in mind. Nematodes are extremely infectious. You want to be very careful not to spread them to any other animals you have.

T's that have a nematode infection generally won't eat. They may take down food but then refuse to actually eat it. They also tend to avoid drinking. You could drop by a vet or a university lab and have them take a sample to look for worms if you really want to know. Other than that, time will tell. If the T refuses to eat or drink for several weeks and/or you start to see the white stuff spreading around the mouth parts then it's definitely a concern. Be sure to keep an eye out for similar issues with the rest of your T's for a while as well.

I really hate to say all that and cause undo worry if it turns out to be nothing, but it really is better to be safe than sorry. Nematodes can take out an entire collection in a very small amount of time. Separating that animal from the rest of your collection is a small price to pay for safety.

Good luck and keep us updated on how he does!

 

[Gizalba]

I tend to agree with m0lsx that this is probably nothing to worry about, but . . .

Just to be on the extremely safe side I would isolate that T from any others that you have ASAP. Take it to a different room as far away as possible that has no other specimens in it. Wash your hands thoroughly after handling that T's cage and keep it's food and substate separated from the rest of your herd. Treat the T just like you normally do and wait to see what happens over the coming three or four weeks.

The concern here is a nematode infection. What I see in the pics doesn't really look like one but anytime you see white stuff around a T's mouth you have to keep it in mind. Nematodes are extremely infectious. You want to be very careful not to spread them to any other animals you have.

T's that have a nematode infection generally won't eat. They may take down food but then refuse to actually eat it. They also tend to avoid drinking. You could drop by a vet or a university lab and have them take a sample to look for worms if you really want to know. Other than that, time will tell. If the T refuses to eat or drink for several weeks and/or you start to see the white stuff spreading around the mouth parts then it's definitely a concern. Be sure to keep an eye out for similar issues with the rest of your T's for a while as well.

I really hate to say all that and cause undo worry if it turns out to be nothing, but it really is better to be safe than sorry. Nematodes can take out an entire collection in a very small amount of time. Separating that animal from the rest of your collection is a small price to pay for safety.

Good luck and keep us updated on how he does!

thank you, will do! It did remind of a horror story I heard about nematodes but thought maybe I was being paranoid. Can I ask, where he would have got that from after all this time with me? I don't know much about them but could it come from a feeder insect?

 

[Eighth Eye Blind]

thank you, will do! It did remind of a horror story I heard about nematodes but thought maybe I was being paranoid. Can I ask, where he would have got that from after all this time with me? I don't know much about them but could it come from a feeder insect?

New T's can definitely bring them in. After that we really don't know a whole lot. There's certainly a suspicion that feeders can carry them in but true proof is lacking. They may just come in from the garden on people's hands and clothes.

There isn't much public support for research grants to study a microscopic worm that kills large spiders so there's very little real science out there about this.

Personally, I'm paranoid enough that I established my own mite- and parasite-free roach colony and stopped buying commercial feeders altogether. That's a bit of work, though. I can't really say if it's worth the trouble.

Washing hands before doing anything with the T's is an easy and quick habit to build, though. That alone will help keep both parasites and harmful chemical away from your pets.

 

[Gizalba]

New T's can definitely bring them in. After that we really don't know a whole lot. There's certainly a suspicion that feeders can carry them in but true proof is lacking. They may just come in from the garden on people's hands and clothes.

There isn't much public support for research grants to study a microscopic worm that kills large spiders so there's very little real science out there about this.

Personally, I'm paranoid enough that I established my own mite- and parasite-free roach colony and stopped buying commercial feeders altogether. That's a bit of work, though. I can't really say if it's worth the trouble.

Washing hands before doing anything with the T's is an easy and quick habit to build, though. That alone will help keep both parasites and harmful chemical away from your pets

Thanks!

Good point re noone wanting to fund research into things that kill big spiders! I will fund it if I am ever rich

Can I ask how you've managed to get your own feeder colonies parasite and mite free? Misty has actually only been fed from my own colonies I have had a few years, but the hissing roaches in particular have always been full of I think those cleaner mites.

However, his enclosure did get a bit dirty with boluses a while ago before I cleaned them up. I have read bad hygiene could also result in nematodes so I'm going to put my gloves on and do a full enclosure/substrate change in the bathroom. Probably too late if it is but may as well :/

 

[Eighth Eye Blind]

Can I ask how you've managed to get your own feeder colonies parasite and mite free?

Collect some egg sacs (ootheca) from an existing colony of red runner roaches. Place them in a container with some food/cosmetics grade diatomaceous earth for a couple of days. The diatomaceous earth will desiccate and kill the mites and nematodes and their eggs outside the sac. The hardened ootheca protects the eggs inside pretty well, however, so you just sift out the ootheca, rinse them off, and put them into a clean container with some moist paper towels at 85°F/30°C for a few weeks to hatch.

Et voilà!: parasite-free roaches. Some of the eggs won't make it through the process but if you start with at least 10-15 egg sacs you should get plenty of nymphs to generate a new colony with.

The hard part is keeping them from being re-infected.

Their containers and food/water dishes need to be thoroughly washed with an insecticidal soap between uses and all of their substrate (if you use any) has to be baked at 250°F/120°C for 30'. You also can't give them any fresh food that can carry in a new infection. I only give mine baked poultry layer pellets (16% protein, 3.5% calcium) plus water in acrylamide gel ("water crystals"). I'm not a believer in gut loading but if you like to do it only use dry, baked supplements - not fresh fruits and veggies.

The colony container also needs to be kept sealed - no air vents - which means that you need to have some activated carbon/zeolite aquarium media in there to soak up the ammonia and other waste gases that get produced. I personally give them a thin layer of coir mixed with 10-15% Marineland Diamond Blend pellets (baked, as well) that's changed out each time I clean the container.

Finally, you can't use egg crates for hiding spaces. Those things are like free public transportation for parasite eggs. I give the colony reusable plastic nesting pads (LIKE THESE) that have been washed in insecticidal soap but there are lots of other options depending on how creative you want to be with your roaches' living arrangements.

Now all you have to do is keep them at 85°F/30°C for a couple of months to let the nymphs mature and start making new, parasite-free babies of their own. Easy, eh?

Like I said, I'm not sure all of this is worth it. I would normally only do this for feeder colonies in the lab where a parasite infection can mean losing years of work. Since I'm used to all the hassle already, though, it's really not a big deal for me to do it at home. It's certainly a lot more work than most people will be willing to justify for a small hobby collection of T's.

Good luck again with your little guy!

 

[Gizalba]

Collect some egg sacs (ootheca) from an existing colony of red runner roaches. Place them in a container with some food/cosmetics grade diatomaceous earth for a couple of days. The diatomaceous earth will desiccate and kill the mites and nematodes and their eggs outside the sac. The hardened ootheca protects the eggs inside pretty well, however, so you just sift out the ootheca, rinse them off, and put them into a clean container with some moist paper towels at 85°F/30°C for a few weeks to hatch.

Et voilà!: parasite-free roaches. Some of the eggs won't make it through the process but if you start with at least 10-15 egg sacs you should get plenty of nymphs to generate a new colony with.

The hard part is keeping them from being re-infected.

Their containers and food/water dishes need to be thoroughly washed with an insecticidal soap between uses and all of their substrate (if you use any) has to be baked at 250°F/120°C for 30'. You also can't give them any fresh food that can carry in a new infection. I only give mine baked poultry layer pellets (16% protein, 3.5% calcium) plus water in acrylamide gel ("water crystals"). I'm not a believer in gut loading but if you like to do it only use dry, baked supplements - not fresh fruits and veggies.

The colony container also needs to be kept sealed - no air vents - which means that you need to have some activated carbon/zeolite aquarium media in there to soak up the ammonia and other waste gases that get produced. I personally give them a thin layer of coir mixed with 10-15% Marineland Diamond Blend pellets (baked, as well) that's changed out each time I clean the container.

Finally, you can't use egg crates for hiding spaces. Those things are like free public transportation for parasite eggs. I give the colony reusable plastic nesting pads (LIKE THESE) that have been washed in insecticidal soap but there are lots of other options depending on how creative you want to be with your roaches' living arrangements.

Now all you have to do is keep them at 85°F/30°C for a couple of months to let the nymphs mature and start making new, parasite-free babies of their own. Easy, eh?

Like I said, I'm not sure all of this is worth it. I would normally only do this for feeder colonies in the lab where a parasite infection can mean losing years of work. Since I'm used to all the hassle already, though, it's really not a big deal for me to do it at home. It's certainly a lot more work than most people will be willing to justify for a small hobby collection of T's.

Good luck again with your little guy!

Ahaha, thanks, just like that Probably won't being doing that but interesting to hear about the procedure!

4-5 days later Misty still seems to be moving fine, still got the white stuff, I 'think' it may be smaller but not sure. Don't really want to stress him by trying to rub it off but judging by his movement hopefully he's okay.