tarantula died oddly?

[voguishceaser]

I am a new tarantula owner who had an avicularia, she lived on pure coco fiber and she was fed a diet of superworm who ate kale/pumpkin alternating every 2nd day. i kept her substrate light dampened, with a water dish in the corner i filled and cleaned daily. However, one morning i was getting ready for work and she was doing almost lap like motions from the bottom left to the top right of her enclosure occasionally stopping at the bottom right to almost rest. I left for work, retuned home about 15hrs later to find her dead in her enclosure. Her front 4 legs were pressed into the substrate along with her fangs, while her abdomen was flipped about a 90 degree angle forwards and her back legs off the side wall, all of her legs were uncurled. I quickly removed her environment and put her into ICU in an attempt to see if she was still alive but a few hours passed and she was still completely unresponsive. As I stated before I am really new to this hobby, and am unsure what I did wrong, if anything, but from what i know they are blood muscle creatures that curl harshly when they die, but she was not like that when I found her. In the past few weeks she had been acting oddly(I think) because when she would climb the sides or to the top of her enclosure she would almost slip, seeming as if her legs got "stuck" to the surface. any advice would be nice, as i am unsure if she was just old or if i had done something wrong.

 

[Arachnoclown]

Sorry for your loss...

Got some pictures of your enclosure?

The activity you explained and the way you found it sounds like something was stressing it out. This may have caused it to fall and injure itself internally.

 

[voguishceaser]

Sorry for your loss...

Got some pictures of your enclosure?

The activity you explained and the way you found it sounds like something was stressing it out. This may have caused it to fall and injure itself internally.

Yes I will send one when I return home from work.

 

[voguishceaser]

Sorry for your loss...

Got some pictures of your enclosure?

The activity you explained and the way you found it sounds like something was stressing it out. This may have caused it to fall and injure itself internally.

 

[ArachnoHorn]

Sorry for your loss.

 

[Arachnoclown]

Looks like you had lots of ventilation. Did you have a water dish though? Your set up wasn't quite set up right. The plant should have been set up at the top of the enclosure and the hide at least stood up against the wall. Avics like to climb. If the setup isn't right avics stress themselves out.

photo for reference

 

[voguishceaser]

Here you go sorry for the late reply, I work nights as a fast food manager.

Looks like you had lots of ventilation. Did you have a water dish though? Your set up wasn't quite set up right. The plant should have been set up at the top of the enclosure and the hide at least stood up against the wall. Avics like to climb. If the setup isn't right avics stress themselves out.

photo for reference
View attachment 53169

Yes I had her a 1 1/2 oz water dish I cleaned and refilled every day(I removed to clean it out). I kept her substrate very lightly dampened, too. And thank you for the advice, I knew that avics like to climb but I wasnt entirely sure how to set up her enclosure because I figure she might have needed a hide. I feel bad now because I did not mean to stress her out . I did a fair amount of research on them before i actually got her but it seems i did not do enough. When i get another i will rearrange the enclosure before I place them in to ensure to reduce stress on them. Thank you so much again for the advice! I will not make the same mistake twice. Is there anything else I should know about the set up to help keep stress levels low?

 

[Volkswachter]

Sounds like a case of SADS (Sudden Avic Death Syndrome); I know that the common theory is that SADS is just an unknown failure in husbandry but I still think that Avics can just die out of nowhere for no reason even when people do "everything right"
Common belief is that Avics do the best with higher humidity levels; so keeping the substrate only slightly damp might not have been enough humidity. Based on my understanding and experience, Avics also typically do better at 75-79 degrees (some people keep them even warmer up to 82-83 degrees)

If you want to try again with this genus, let me recommend a cork bark round about as tall as the enclosure with hole or nock or two with 2-3 inches of substrate; my personal substrate mix is mainly eco-earth mixed with pete or sphagnum moss, vermiculite and organic potting soil; I also cover 1/3-2/3 of the top of the substrate in loose moss or leaves to trap in moisture; another recommendation is picking up the false plants with a suction cup; I use them with both my Ts and some of my reptiles (except the ones who mistake them for real leaves....)

Finally,, based on experience and from what I've heard from others, Avics need cross ventilation far more than other specimens; a plastic or acrylic enclosure with vent holes on two sides, or several rows along the lower part of the front pane and vent holes along the rear edge of the lid/roof would probably be better than a mesh top.

I've never had any success feeding any of my Ts superworms but that's only been my experience, I find that all of my arboreals (I only have mid-to-heavy webbing arboreals) thrive on crickets fed once to twice a week

This is about all I can think to offer in terms of advice. I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

 

[Volkswachter]

To clarify, most to all species benefit most from cross ventilation, but avics seem to REALLY depend on good cross ventilation with constant, gentle airflow.

 

[voguishceaser]

Sounds like a case of SADS (Sudden Avic Death Syndrome); I know that the common theory is that SADS is just an unknown failure in husbandry but I still think that Avics can just die out of nowhere for no reason even when people do "everything right"
Common belief is that Avics do the best with higher humidity levels; so keeping the substrate only slightly damp might not have been enough humidity. Based on my understanding and experience, Avics also typically do better at 75-79 degrees (some people keep them even warmer up to 82-83 degrees)

If you want to try again with this genus, let me recommend a cork bark round about as tall as the enclosure with hole or nock or two with 2-3 inches of substrate; my personal substrate mix is mainly eco-earth mixed with pete or sphagnum moss, vermiculite and organic potting soil; I also cover 1/3-2/3 of the top of the substrate in loose moss or leaves to trap in moisture; another recommendation is picking up the false plants with a suction cup; I use them with both my Ts and some of my reptiles (except the ones who mistake them for real leaves....)

Finally,, based on experience and from what I've heard from others, Avics need cross ventilation far more than other specimens; a plastic or acrylic enclosure with vent holes on two sides, or several rows along the lower part of the front pane and vent holes along the rear edge of the lid/roof would probably be better than a mesh top.

I've never had any success feeding any of my Ts superworms but that's only been my experience, I find that all of my arboreals (I only have mid-to-heavy webbing arboreals) thrive on crickets fed once to twice a week

This is about all I can think to offer in terms of advice. I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

Thank you for the advice, I will mix your with the other commenter before i end up getting another one. It seems I still have a lot to learn about these beauties! I loved my girl lots and am upset that I took poor care of her in her time with me. Thank you again for the advice!

 

[Konstantin]

Thank you for the advice, I will mix your with the other commenter before i end up getting another one. It seems I still have a lot to learn about these beauties! I loved my girl lots and am upset that I took poor care of her in her time with me. Thank you again for the advice!

Hi
can you post pictures of the enclosure she was in.

Sounds like a case of SADS (Sudden Avic Death Syndrome); I know that the common theory is that SADS is just an unknown failure in husbandry but I still think that Avics can just die out of nowhere for no reason even when people do "everything right"
Common belief is that Avics do the best with higher humidity levels; so keeping the substrate only slightly damp might not have been enough humidity. Based on my understanding and experience, Avics also typically do better at 75-79 degrees (some people keep them even warmer up to 82-83 degrees)

If you want to try again with this genus, let me recommend a cork bark round about as tall as the enclosure with hole or nock or two with 2-3 inches of substrate; my personal substrate mix is mainly eco-earth mixed with pete or sphagnum moss, vermiculite and organic potting soil; I also cover 1/3-2/3 of the top of the substrate in loose moss or leaves to trap in moisture; another recommendation is picking up the false plants with a suction cup; I use them with both my Ts and some of my reptiles (except the ones who mistake them for real leaves....)

Finally,, based on experience and from what I've heard from others, Avics need cross ventilation far more than other specimens; a plastic or acrylic enclosure with vent holes on two sides, or several rows along the lower part of the front pane and vent holes along the rear edge of the lid/roof would probably be better than a mesh top.

I've never had any success feeding any of my Ts superworms but that's only been my experience, I find that all of my arboreals (I only have mid-to-heavy webbing arboreals) thrive on crickets fed once to twice a week

This is about all I can think to offer in terms of advice. I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

Those common high humidity believes are the reason for SADS.Folk chasing high humidity values that supposedly Avics need creating stuffy humid enclosures that end up killing their pet spiders.
While Avicularia come from areas with high humidity in nature there is also the fact that they also enjoy unlimited amounts of fresh air movement.
It is near impossible to mimic those conditions in your enclosure as unlike in nature you keep your spider in a box with limited ventilation located in a room.
However the common believes nowadays are that Avicularia sp do best in enclosure with good cross ventilation (holes on sides above substrate level and the top) ,vertically orientated cork bark(thick branch) and leaf cover near the top of it for anchor points and security, DRY substrate and good size waterdish.Avic do not make use of substrate so do not stress about what are you using(anything soft will do- coco fiber,peat,chemical free top soil ... or combination of them)
Me and many other folk keep them on DRY substrate since slings and they do very very well.
Those high humidity outdated miths are nonsense.
Regards Konstantin

 

[Konstantin]

I saw you already posted pics of the enclosure .
This is incorrect way to setup it as @Arachnoclown had explained already.
Also seems the enclosure has only top ventilation wich is not ideal.

 

[Oursapoil]

Sorry for your loss but do not give up. There are always ways to improve your keeper's skills but keep in mind that sometimes there is just nothing that can be done and it has nothing to do with you.
Have a nice day.

 

[Arachnoclown]

I saw you already posted pics of the enclosure .
This is incorrect way to setup it as @Arachnoclown had explained already.
Also seems the enclosure has only top ventilation wich is not ideal.

True...I just noticed it doesn't have the bottom door ventilation like the Exo Terra.

 

[Arachnoclown]

Low humidity is the best target for beginners with Avicularia. If you are hitting high humidity numbers your husbandry skills best be top notch...or you will have dead spiders.

 

[Volkswachter]

Hi
can you post pictures of the enclosure she was in.

Those common high humidity believes are the reason for SADS.Folk chasing high humidity values that supposedly Avics need creating stuffy humid enclosures that end up killing their pet spiders.
While Avicularia come from areas with high humidity in nature there is also the fact that they also enjoy unlimited amounts of fresh air movement.
It is near impossible to mimic those conditions in your enclosure as unlike in nature you keep your spider in a box with limited ventilation located in a room.
However the common believes nowadays are that Avicularia sp do best in enclosure with good cross ventilation (holes on sides above substrate level and the top) ,vertically orientated cork bark(thick branch) and leaf cover near the top of it for anchor points and security, DRY substrate and good size waterdish.Avic do not make use of substrate so do not stress about what are you using(anything soft will do- coco fiber,peat,chemical free top soil ... or combination of them)
Me and many other folk keep them on DRY substrate since slings and they do very very well.
Those high humidity outdated miths are nonsense.
Regards Konstantin

You didn't read my whole post, I talked about the high levels of cross ventilation and suggested that the substrate should be wet enough to remain dark, but not swampy, thanks for repeating quite literally almost everything I said.

 

[Konstantin]

Hi
I keep mine with high levels of cross ventilation and ZERO moisture in the substrate.While I agree with the ventilation coments I strongly disagree with keeping Avicularia sp on moist substrate and adding mosses etc to help trap more moisture.
The point Im trying to make is quite different from what you have said on the matter.
I will advise the OP to ignore all the humidity nonsense and just keep them on dry substrate with a good size waterdish.The low humidity will only mean that the waterdish will evaporate faster and will need topping more regularly.
It is proven that Avics fair better when kept on the dry side by new keepers.
Regards Konstantin

 

[Volkswachter]

Hi
I keep mine with high levels of cross ventilation and ZERO moisture in the substrate.While I agree with the ventilation coments I strongly disagree with keeping Avicularia sp on moist substrate and adding mosses etc to help trap more moisture.
The point Im trying to make is quite different from what you have said on the matter.
I will advise the OP to ignore all the humidity nonsense and just keep them on dry substrate with a good size waterdish.The low humidity will only mean that the waterdish will evaporate faster and will need topping more regularly.
It is proven that Avics fair better when kept on the dry side by new keepers.
Regards Konstantin

Proven by whom? lmao. Show me the scientific papers/studies. How is the point "quite different" in any regard beyond the humidity question; you basically repeated everything I said except for the humidity, which goes to show you didn't read my post and just reacted to the first line.

Furthermore, IF the ventilation question is sorted out, IE; proper cross ventilation with a sufficient number of vent holes as is needed for most species regardless and it's just a good practice to get into whenever you get new enclosures/boxes to drill out the holes before you even need them, proper ventilation alleviates any risk of humidity; I don't believe being "new" should be an excuse for not learning, being "new" is the perfect time to learn, and saying that "new keepers should do it THIS way" instead of learning how to do it the *right* way; that's just silly.

You don't have proof, it's not "proven", you *do* have subjective consensus based on individual cases of both success and failure, and in that sense my subjective experiences with this genus are just as valid.

 

[Konstantin]

Hi
I get the vibe that you are taking my replies as direct attack towards you.That is not the case.
I already wrote that I agree with some of the information you have provided.
The humidity question while only point of difference in our opinion is a significant enough on its own to require reaction.
Its true that noone have performed and published any scientific research on the matter but my point is proven by the multitude of keepers and breeders arround the world that are keeping Avics with much lower mortality rates on dry substrate in comparison of the old times when they were first introduced to the hobby and believed to require high humidity because of theirs country of origin climate.
You say "Common belief is that Avics do the best with higher humidity levels; so keeping the substrate only slightly damp might not have been enough humidity"
That on its own is a poor piece of advice to the OP having in mind his enclosure was ventilated only on the top and even little moisture in the substrate will have the potential to create stuffy enclosure.
Also I have not seen anyone recommend keeping Avicularia sp in high humidity environment anywhere I have conducted my research or any forums that I am member of either.And on tbose forums there are thousands of people with decades of experience under their belts.
I have not said that one should not learn .I still am learning myself.There is always room for something new to be learned also not everything is set in stone too.I doubt and research to the best of my ability everything before I implement it to my collection.I value my tarantulas well being and rather not use them as guinea pigs for husbandry experiments
The OP chose to learn by posting on here and get opinions from our users in order to gain knowledge and care for the tarantula better in future.You gave your opinion so did I.
I gave him fool proof advice that works for me and many others with experience or not.What he will take out of it is his own business
I have said what I wanted to say and I will leave it at that.

Also to the OP.
Have in mind that even if your husbandry is correct and you are doing everything right deaths sometimes happen. .Don't let the bad experience discourage you .Try again .
Regards Konstantin

 

[WolfSpider]

I have been keeping Ts for 7 years. I avoid Avics and Caribena sps. cause I don't think I can overcome their fastidious keeper requirements. No other genus concerns me. Rest assured, avics can be challenging to even the best of hobbiests.