Just a shot in the dark..

[TabithasMom]

Any Michiganders on this forum? If so, any metro-Detroiters who attend the Michigan Reptile Show in Taylor? I went today, as I do each month, and left with pretty jarred. There's one vendor, tucked in a corner, who is a flipper. He buys Ts from who-knows-where, and sells them to make a profit. They're often skinny, on the wrong substrate, or completely bald for the NWs. Today, I was horrified at what I saw. Every single T had either sponges, or dried cotton balls in their tubs. This is new for him, so it really grabbed my attention. Also, he had two sub-adult T. stirmis, roughly 6-7 inches, with abdomens the size of a grape.

I poked around for a bit, and he happened to have two Poecilotheria pedersonis. One was on the wall of the tub, probably 3rd instar, while the other (same size) was in the middle of the substrate, and abnormally fuzzy. I picked it up, and kinda jostled the tub to see if there was a response. Nope. I flagged down the attention of one of his helpers, and asked if she minded if I poked at it because it doesn't look good. Sure enough, it was dead, and fuzzy stuff was mold. So it's been dead for a while. I brought it to her attention, and asked where he gets his Ts. She says he buys them from various breeders, as I suspected. But this new batch looked like they came from a tarantula mill, run by idiots who have no basic knowledge of tarantula husbandry. I pointed out that the Ts have no business having any kind of sponge or cotton in their enclosure, which was probably one of the catalysts for the baby T's death.

I wound up buying the other live pedersoni, and she knocked $10 off my bill, probably because she knew I knew what I was talking about, and embarrassed for being associated with such a disgrace of a vendor. I tried talking to him, but as soon as I started questioning his care-taking abilities, he rushed on to help other customers, and then flat-out left the table. It was busy, and it was easy to get shuffled into the crowd. I feel guilty for feeding into the problem, and funding his gross practices, but I couldn't help but think I'm saving this little guy from sharing the same fate as its buddy.

I later talked with the employee at a mom and pop pet store I frequent for feeders/supplies, who actually knows a bunch about tarantulas (as does one other employee, hence why I keep going there), and he confirmed this dude is a black mark in the local pet trade. He didn't have his name, because he doesn't offer any business cards, or other form of advertisement, but he assured me he doesn't have a store. It's likely he sells the rest on the internet, though.

Anyway, I was wondering if there's anyone else in this area who knows of this guy, and how I can help get him to change his ethics. And sorry for the super long post. It's been bugging me all day.

 

[Enn49]

Firstly congrats on the new T. Poecilotheria pedersoni is now P. vittata (has been for a few years now)/ What a shame you weren't in time to save the other too.

The organisers of the show may be able to help with a name for the seller, they should have a plan of the tables and who hired them.

 

[Thistles]

You don't know the guy's name or business name or whatever? Did you get a receipt from him? Getting his name out might discourage people from selling to him or buying from him online when they can't inspect the stock. I wouldn't sell him any of my slings if I knew who it is. I have no advice on how to change people, but I'm sorry you had to see that and that the spiders have to endure that. Also, just so you know, Poecilotheria pederseni is now P. vittata. He's definitely out of the loop.

 

[TabithasMom]

Thank you both for the clarification on the species name. It was labeled Ghost Ornamental, and both vittata and pederseni were listed when I Googled it, so that's my mistake for using the wrong name.No, he rushed off before I could get his name. I searched for an email address to contact the site hosting the event, but nothing. There is a number, but I haven't called yet. It's on my list of things to do tomorrow.

The owner of the pet store I mentioned above said he's seen him pull out boxes, unopened, at the show before, thus proving he doesn't even assess the condition of the Ts when he obtains them. It's deplorable, and sickening. I'll be back next month, and whether I get his name before then, I will figure out who he is, and make sure people are aware of who they're dealing with.

 

[MassExodus]

I cannot stand seeing a tiny abdomen on a tarantula. It makes me angry every time. Even my mm spiders had decent sized abdomens, and they hardly ate..

 

[VanessaS]

Unfortunately, this hobby brings out the worst in people too. Since they are basically 'just' spiders, they are not protected the same way as other 'pets'. There are no standards of care afforded to other animals and there is nobody out there advocating for their well being.
I think it is up to us, as a community, to ensure that people like that are not in the hobby. We're the only ones who give a damn. I would say that most of his customers know as little as he does and he doesn't encounter that many people, like you, who know better. Ignorance and fear work in his favour.

 

[Phil]

@TabithasMom if you do go next month I have just 2 words oF encouragement....kick ass!
And DO NOT feel guilty about rescuing any animal. You were brave to take them especially knowing that you were not getting a healthy specimen to begin with. I hope you can nurse them all back to full fitness. I say well done you.

 

[TabithasMom]

Well, here's a somewhat disheartening update. I called the number listed on the website, and have a very lengthy conversation with the guy who runs the event (missed his name...I'm good for that, lol). I told him about what I found, and my concerns about this vendor's ethics. He, in turn, let me in on a secret. I had to digest what he told me, because I'm very disappointed.

First, a bit of backstory on the show. It's primarily for reptiles, and amphibians, but there are four steady T vendors every time. Each has his own reserved table, and three out of the four really know their stuff. I've grown to respect them, their specimens are in good health, and I trust what I'm buying.

Now for the ultimate letdown. The shady vendor in question (named Ron--he did not disclose his last name) buys all his Ts wholesale, from all over the country and world, and brings them to the show. He refuses to handle any of them, even in their containers, and makes his son set them up. Before the doors open, the other three vendors pick through his finds, clean up their enclosures, give them a meal, and in turn, sell them at their tables. It was like the wind was let out of me. I do know, two of the other vendors do breed their own, and sell the slings, but to know they contribute to this dude was disappointing. '

The man I spoke with thanked me for bringing these concerns to his attention, and promised he'd talk to him about it. But I think the damage is done, as far as my participation is concerned. I don't want to contribute to this back-alley market playing out, and I'm bummed.

Now, the major artery supplying my addiction to these eight-legged treasures is cut off. I've never ordered a T, and had it shipped. Call me a nervous Nancy, but I haven't quite summoned up the bravery to explore this venture. Looks like I'll have to get over that anxiety!

 

[Thistles]

Thanks for doing the detective work, even though the answers weren't encouraging. What a sad situation.

I've gotten probably 95% of my collection online. It's generally safe!

 

[VanessaS]

Well, that is sad news. Even sadder that the other dealers enable him. But maybe things will improve because you have made a few calls?
I hear very few bad things from people receiving tarantulas via courier or in the mail. Yes, there are sometimes accidents, or the odd DOA, but the vast majority do fine being shipped... from reputable dealers.
Lots of members here ship them from all over the states with good results. They can let you know who the best people to deal with are and you can feel better about your purchases.
Ya did good... even though the results are disappointing.
xoxo

 

[Rmac88]

This is very sad I can at least attest to the fact that the only T I have (or have ever had) was ordered online and shipped to me. It was a 3/4" sling and even though I was nervous and had absolutely NO idea what I was doing, all was (and still is) well and good

Sent from my SPH-L520 using Tapatalk

 

[queenieheather]

I'm from MI too, in Sterling Heights and went to this show for the first time the other day. I went looking for slings. I thought I looked at all the vendors though I didn't see the dead fuzzy one! Probably because Poecilotheria species scare me lol(noob). But really sad to hear that they use some of his specimens at the other tables.

I was excited to find a place where they sold so many Ts. Though I know it's bad to support anyone who would be okay with this... but would it make a difference to ask the vendor if he acquired the specimen or bred them themselves?

 

[TabithasMom]

He doesn't breed any of them, nor will he touch them. I was told he's scared and grossed out by tarantulas, so that means if his son doesn't feed them, they don't get fed. He ships them in, wholesale, from all over the world. He literally brings in the boxes their shipped in, still sealed, and sets up at the show. So, who knows how long they've been sitting in their shipping boxes without ventilation, food, and water? Most are wild caught, I'm guessing, considering the ones he normally sells tend to be sub-adults or adults, with the exception of the two slings I mentioned above. The other guys take any slings he brings in. I was there right when they opened, so it's likely I had them pull the dead one, and rescued its buddy before you arrived.

 

[MassExodus]

This guy sounds like a real entrepreneur...is he the owner of Rattrap Reptiles 2.0 by chance? Sounds like they at least must be related. POS seem to be flocking to the hobby..

 

[kormath]

Well, here's a somewhat disheartening update. I called the number listed on the website, and have a very lengthy conversation with the guy who runs the event (missed his name...I'm good for that, lol). I told him about what I found, and my concerns about this vendor's ethics. He, in turn, let me in on a secret. I had to digest what he told me, because I'm very disappointed.

First, a bit of backstory on the show. It's primarily for reptiles, and amphibians, but there are four steady T vendors every time. Each has his own reserved table, and three out of the four really know their stuff. I've grown to respect them, their specimens are in good health, and I trust what I'm buying.

Now for the ultimate letdown. The shady vendor in question (named Ron--he did not disclose his last name) buys all his Ts wholesale, from all over the country and world, and brings them to the show. He refuses to handle any of them, even in their containers, and makes his son set them up. Before the doors open, the other three vendors pick through his finds, clean up their enclosures, give them a meal, and in turn, sell them at their tables. It was like the wind was let out of me. I do know, two of the other vendors do breed their own, and sell the slings, but to know they contribute to this dude was disappointing. '

The man I spoke with thanked me for bringing these concerns to his attention, and promised he'd talk to him about it. But I think the damage is done, as far as my participation is concerned. I don't want to contribute to this back-alley market playing out, and I'm bummed.

Now, the major artery supplying my addiction to these eight-legged treasures is cut off. I've never ordered a T, and had it shipped. Call me a nervous Nancy, but I haven't quite summoned up the bravery to explore this venture. Looks like I'll have to get over that anxiety!

I've gotten every T i own online. Use the reputable vendors or forum members. The review threads is a great place to start. You'll be fine if you stick with the main vendors. Ken the Bug guy, Paul with Pet Center USA, or Anastasia at net-bug.net are my recommendations. Never had a bad experience with any of those vendors. I'm planning an order in mid June for a couple more T's from Ken

 

[TabithasMom]

I've nosed around a lot of sites, even the sale section on this forum. The prices look good, and I've read plenty of reviews. I'm just a worry wart, and nervous doing something I haven't done. This is the #1 reason I didn't ship off my MM LP. I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to shipping and stuff, or how the exchange goes. As luck may have it, I did find someone in my area who has a MF, and is open to a pairing. This way he has his last hurrah before he goes. Plus, I'll be there for the pairing, so I can learn hands-on about breeding. Score!

Thanks for all the encouragement, and helping me quell my fears about online purchases. There's a reason I keep coming back here, instead of other forums. Lots of smart people in these parts!

 

[Thistles]

Great news that you found a local girl! Good luck to you both.