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Rose Hair Acting Very Irritated since Last Feeding

daphnep

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3 Year Member
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8
Hello, all. I have come here for help, because I have no other idea what to do for my Chilean Rose Hair, Isabella.

Isabella three or four years old. She has molted twice since she was given to me as a Mother's Day present in May of 2012. I have had rose hairs for almost twenty years, and she has become my favorite.

She lives in a five-gallon tank with a water dish in the corner. Her water dish is keep full, and there are two natural sponges in it. She drinks out of them when she's thirsty. Her substrate is a sphagnum peat and soil mix with no hard pieces. It is dry and packed very well. She has a heat rock in another corner. She uses it when she wants and can move freely about the tank. She has a little underground cave made from a buried mouse or gerbil hut (it is plastic). She uses that sometimes.

Isabella molted in November in an older nest of web, and she molted on her stomach, weirdly enough. It was the first time I ever saw a tarantula start from the upright position. Her molt was quick, she recovered very well, and I fed her about ten days afterward. She behaved normally after her molt: stretching, resting, extending her legs, etc. When she ate, she seemed fine. Actually, she recovered very well, much better than the first time she molted. I bought the crickets from the same place I always buy them from.

Then, about a week after she ate, I saw her in her cage in the agitated state position--she was partially reared up, her front set of legs and pedipalps in the air. She stayed like that for a day. At this point I got worried. What was going on, I wondered? She continued on like this for another day, and I became very worried, so I went to the internet to look for information on why a tarantula would be in a reared-up state when no stimulus or irritant was visible. I found nothing to help me, so on a whim I decided to look for mites in the tank. I found a few of them in the soil and decided to change the entire tank. I took all the items out of her tank and sterilized the tank itself. I got a new lid (the old one was a bit ratty). I put the cleaned tank in the freezer for three days, along with the cleaned water bowl and cave, and I took the chance to buy a new heating rock; the old one had disintegrated a bit. The heating rock is the basic, five-volt, orange terracotta one we all see around.

During this time, I put Isabella in a clear, plastic carrying container with a vented lid, and I kept watch on her. She was reared up for much of the time, and rested for other portions of time. I used a flash light and looked everywhere on her. Everywhere. In her mouth, by her spinnerets, by her book lungs, on her back, in her joints, etc. I scrutinized her for a mite, and I only found one white thing on her back ... but it never moved. I mean, I saw nothing. I looked at pictures on the internet of what mites look like on a spider, and believe me: nothing was on her. She looked pristine.

After a week, I bought new soil and peat, and I baked it at 400 degrees for quite some time. I thawed out her cage and stuff. I cleaned the shelf where her tank sits, searching it for any mites (and found none). Satisfied that nothing was amiss, I set up her new tank, and I put her in it.

Last night, after her being in the tank for two days, I found her rearing up a bit, still, and then she did the weirdest thing I have ever seen a spider do. She sat in her water bowl as much as she lower herself past the sponges. She put her butt right in the bowl. When I took the tank down to look at her, I saw white flecks on the top of her abdomen. They did not move, but they did look like mites. Same size, same color, same look as what I saw in some online photos.

I grabbed a Q-tip, and with petroleum jelly, I pulled off as many as the white flecks as I could, and even weirder, Isabella allowed me. She just sat there. When I was done, she almost had bald spots on her poor abdomen. Later last night, I saw her moving around the heat rock, and she sat on it, resting, for some time. She looked relaxed, and I thought maybe the trouble has passed. I found few, if any, white flecks on her back, and even weirder, it seems like hairs appeared back on the bald spot.

Then today, I found her in the water bowl again, irritated, and then back on the heat rock. So it seems she is putting her lower abdomen in the water, sitting there, and then going back on the heat rock. I am flummoxed and worried to death that, somehow, something is inside of her, and this is why she is acting up. I have no idea why a tarantula would soak her butt, where she breathes no less, in a water bowl, and then dry herself back out.

Does anyone have any idea of what could be going on? I love her dearly. She is so deep pink and calm, graceful, and just a wonderful little girl, and I feel so bad for her. Thanks so much.

Oh, and P.S. I used filtered water in her bowl, if that matters.
 

daphnep

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3 Year Member
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8
Here is a picture of her abdomen before I cleaned her up, by the way. There is very, very little of this material left on her.
 

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daphnep

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Here is an update: she is still acting irritated. I caught her in the water bowl last night, going back between it and the rock, a few times. Now she is curled up in the soil and moving around intermittently. Does anyone have any ideas as to why her behavior would change so much? Even though she molted easily, could something have happened at that time that didn't present until a week later?
 

DVirginiana

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3 Year Member
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187
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NC
I'm not an expert on this, but I have heard of personality changes after a molt.

Hopefully she'll start acting normal again for you :(
 

spidey noob

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tyne & wear uk
hows the T doing now any better ???
i think u are on the wright track with the mights !!! just remember mights need warm damp places to thrive so the dryer u can make it the better maybe take the water bowl out & change the sphagnum peat and soil mix to coco fiber.
also if your T sitting in the water bowl it will be keeping the mites damp & if it then goes on the heat rock there warm & damp witch would be perfect for them to thrive. i would aslo get rid of the sponge in the water bowl it will only create bad bacteria !!!
good luck :)


 

NYX

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182
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New York
If it is mites* I think mites can only reproduce at a certain temperature ( atleast with my knowledge of reptile mites). A rosie can probably take a cooler ambient Temperature then the mites could to survive. I would remove the heat rock and let her home dry out and see if they die off.
 

Tomoran

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Tarantula Club Member
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800
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Connecticut
Yup, the heat rock and sponge in the water bowl should both be taken out immediately. Sponges grow disgusting bacteria and serve no purpose. They can freely drink from a bowl. Heat rocks will fry your T.

As for the attitude, as others have said, their personalities often change after molts. Although she might have been acting "normal" for the first week or so after the molt, she was still getting used to her new exoskeleton. Now that she's completely hardened up, this could be the new "her".

Also, it is possible that she is resting on the rock and becoming dehydrated from the heat, then going to the water dish to desperately re-hydrate? Those rocks often have hot spots and are very unsafe. If this is the case, the setup is putting her in danger.
 
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NYX

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New York
I really don't know why they still sell heat rocks. I hear so many horror stories of people loosing pets to them, even animals that like it much much hotter than T's.
 

daphnep

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3 Year Member
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Wow. First of all, thank all of you for your replies. This has been a frustrating experience, and your support means a great deal to me. Here are a few things I wanted to respond to right away:
  • I microwave her sponges weekly to sterilize them. She seems to like the sponges a great deal. They are her first choice for drinking. I can take them out, but if I sterilize them, is there another reason I would do so?
  • Our house is in a place that loses power more often than what could be considered normal, and our living room is quite cool for most of the year anyway. She uses her heat rock a lot. I have read that rose hairs are desert spiders (which is why I keep her cage material dry but try to build up a bit of relative humidity), and so they can stand lower temperatures. I can take the heat rock out to see what happens.
  • I also researched the spots on her abdomen, and the consensus was that this is what her abdomen might look like if she is irritated and is going to urticate hairs. Thank you for verifying that for me! I was sure she was covered.
So if the spots are not mites, I cannot see a single moving mite on her now, I have not seen a single moving thing on her, and I have not actually seen anything that could be a mite, it is entirely possible she does not have mites on her. Therefore it does seem that her new personality is this angry creature who rises up at every stimulus, and the molt was the reason for the change. This is totally sad. She was so settled and at peace before, and now she looks unhappy, if spiders can be such a thing.

I am going to take out the heat rock, clean her water dish, and see what happens if I take the sponges out. Sunday is the day I clean the bowl and zap her sponges anyway. In a few days I will pop back in to report her behavior.

One last hope is that feeding her will take this edge off. Oh snap ... is it possible that the crickets she had before her personality change had pesticide on them or were "off"? That wouldn't cause her to act in such a way, would it? Does that even ever happen?

Thank you all so much again, by the way. You all are a great support and make me feel less helpless. Heart.
 

swimbait

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3 Year Member
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363
The cricket thing is unlikely. I have never experienced something like this, but what I do know, is heat rocks are extremely dangerous
 

daphnep

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Hello, all. Here is an update to poor Isabella.

I have removed the heat rock and performed the usual sponge sterilization that I do during the weekends. Today I bought two plump crickets for her, to see if she would eat. She actually let one walk under her and jumped up when it touched her. I have never seen her refuse to eat. It was as if she was afraid to touch it. A minute later, it looked like she tried to go after one, but she stopped and pulled her legs over her carapace again. I have uploaded a picture of her stance so you can get a better idea of what I am talking about. If I had to describe it in "human" terms, I would say that she is acting like the first few pairs of shoes she is wearing are too tight or she is trying to avoid walking on poop or something. And last night, I actually saw her walking backward, as if to ward something off.

I know this sounds crazy, but she is acting like she has brain damage. She looks miserable or agitated all the time. I cannot see a single mite anywhere, by the way. The habitat is as clean as it could be, as does she. She has covered her soil with a fine film of webbing, like she always does.

At what point do I consider that she might be too off to survive? :(
 

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DVirginiana

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3 Year Member
Messages
187
Location
NC
Not eating by itself isn't a huge problem; rosies are known for randomly deciding to fast for months.

The funny ways of walking could potentially be due to the molt not going 100% well and she is uncomfortable and therefore cranky, or maybe mites?
There is also a problem called DKS (DisKinetic Syndrome) that can cause bizarre movements and fasting. No one quite knows the cause of it, but I think it may be better to just go forward under the assumption that it's either mites you aren't seeing yet or a molt issue; over-worrying won't help. Can't tell w/o a video, but the movements you're talking about seem like they are well controlled; From what I've read/seen DKS tends to look more uncontrolled (you can look up videos of it on youtube).
 

DVirginiana

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I just saw the post about the heat rock. If your house is anywhere between parka and bikini temperature the temp is going to be fine for the rosie. :)
 

daphnep

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Hi, D! I should elaborate on what I see on her, regarding mites, or how I have looked. Maybe this will help. I don't know. At this point, yes, I'm worrying. It's so hard not to when you love a pet. I am legally blind without my contacts or glasses. In fact, I have to buy expensive, triple-ground lenses for my glasses, or else I'd have those Jerry Lewis, coke-bottled things. This is good now, because I am a cranky, rickety 45 years old, and this is the age when people start needing bifocals. I do not, however, because of the extreme myopia, and when I take off my glasses I can see things very well super close up. I have put Isabella in a plastic clear cage and examined her truly close up, and I see nothing that looks like mites. What I thought were mites on the back of her abdomen was what I now know is the condition where she might be urticating or is just normal mottling. I swear, I cannot see a single mite, even super up close. The ones I see in Google images can be seen with the naked eye; are there microscopic ones that she could be carrying?

I have never heard of Diskinetic Syndrome. When I saw some of the videos, I about cried. Oh my God, that's awful. No, she's not like that, but she is irritated. It's like she is extra-sensitive now. I have been contemplating moving her cage to a very quiet room, one that does not get so much action.
And worst, after reading this page,

https://tomsbigspiders.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/dks-dyskinetic-syndrome-in-tarantulas/

I think that you might be right on the syndrome. This person explains exactly what is happening to Isabella: his spider molted fine, ate a meal, and then developed the same symptoms Isabella is showing. If this is the case, then I have to up the humidity and hope for the best; it does not appear that the best comes for these tarantulas, though.
 

DVirginiana

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3 Year Member
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187
Location
NC
I'm no expert on either mites or DKS as I've never had to personally deal with either, so maybe someone with firsthand experience can tell you more about it. What you're doing (putting her in a low traffic area and letting her chill out for awhile) may be the best course of action here. Certainly can't hurt anything.

The only thing I dislike about my exotic pets is that there are often limited to no medical options when they get sick. Here's to hoping that she's just feeling cranky after her molt and being a typical fasting rosie! :(
 

daphnep

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3 Year Member
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Thank you. As of now, she tried to climb the side of her tank, quite adroitly. I have done some "tarantula meds," according to people who have had DKS tarantula: I have her heat rock on top of the tank, on top of a lid that has covered metal mesh, and it is surrounded by wet paper towels. On top of that, I have a large plastic bag. She has water in her bowl, dry ground, and the moisture from the paper towels is creating a visible humidity, what with glass water spots.

D., I did want to share this, too. From what I have read, crickets that have fed on dead crickets, and crickets sent from places that use miticides (hence, the crickets become immune while their eaters do not), can trigger DKS. I have really, really gone over this chain of events, and it all adds up. Healthy molt. Really healthy tarantula. Meal with crickets from a place that I have to admit has, um, dipped in health care over the past few months (dead crickets in the tank). Then, these symptoms. As much as I agonize over trying to deny it, I believe she ate a bad meal, and she has suffered from the meal. I have taken the two crickets out of the tank and am looking online for local organic cricket breeders. This is the one great thing about being in the Pacific Northwest -- lots of hippies and free growers. I do not know if she will live, but with a new organic food source and this high relative humidity, I want to hope she has a chance. Her movements are spastic but purposeful, so if she does have some type of pesticide-based issue, I have to hope that high humidity, a clean environment, and organic food may save her.

I cannot say it enough times -- the support, feedback, and education from the lot of you helps a great deal. I care for a few pets. I breed fish, keep fish, have six rescue cats, and support three dogs. One is a rescue chihuahua thing. I honestly think it is actually African field shrew and sewer rat, haha. But our other dogs are a Boston and my Olde English. I just love animals. People think because "it's just a bug" that I should be less concerned, but that is not the case. Isabella is one of my dears. I just love her. I do not have a lot of tarantulas like some of the people on this wonderful board, but that does mean that I don't love her less. Because she is my one and only spider I love her all the more, because she is my dear. I agonize over her right now, because I have taken the position to be her caregiver. When people do not get that, I secretly wish them fleas in their armpits.

Sorry to rant, but I think any person on this board might get it. We really love these creatures. Just as with my aquariums, we are taking on the responsibility to care for an exotic, and that is a really big task. We are providing an entire environment and food chain for them. I am glad to have help.

I will try to be positive and to keep her environment warm and humid and dry at the same time. I will check in at the end of the week with an update, and again -- thank you to all of you. Funny, the heat rock works really well for the purpose of making humidity where Izzy cannot be harmed by it.

And I still have Statistics homework to do. Priorities!
 

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