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Genius tarantulas?
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<blockquote data-quote="Tomoran" data-source="post: 202506" data-attributes="member: 1152"><p>Hey, Stan. First of all, <strong>HUGE</strong> respect for you and what you've done for the community. I've been eagerly awaiting the newest edition of this book for YEARS, and I was just commenting to my wife the other night that I hoped that you hadn't abandoned the project. When I noticed this post, I couldn't help but get excited. </p><p> </p><p>Although I appreciate the idea of including a bit about tarantula/spider intelligence, I really worry that a bunch of anecdotal stories about their supposed "learned" behavior will only further encourage folks to anthropomorphize these animals. I spend a lot of time talking to new keepers (which will likely be the targeted audience of this new edition), and they already struggle with understanding that these animals are not dogs or cats. I could fill a page with all of the crazy things that hobbyists have done with their tarantulas because they honestly believe that the animals are bonded with them (or, are showing emotional intelligence). These situations can put both the keeper and the animals at risk.</p><p> </p><p>I could definitely see you including a chapter that draws on some of the scientific studies that have already been done in terms of arachnid intelligence, and maybe mentioning that some folks have seen evidence that there is more going on with them than we think. However, anything else would be pure conjecture and, quite frankly, could do more harm than good. As much as you want to warn that you shouldn’t be hands-on with old world species, there are folks out there who will not differentiate. After all, if you’re saying that tarantulas can learn to accept human contact, then wouldn’t it stand to reason that ANY tarantula could be “tamed” in this manner? Many will come to this conclusion.</p><p> </p><p>If I’m reading the above quote correctly, you are proposing that folks could teach their spiders to eat from their fingers? I’m sorry, but this is beyond irresponsible. I’m not going to wade into the whole handling debate, because I can honestly see both sides. But I’ve fed enough tarantulas over the years to recognize that this type of “experiment” is just a bite waiting to happen. Even the most “docile” beginner species can have excellent feeding responses and can overshoot their targets. One of the reasons that we don’t encourage tong feeding is because the spiders will often miss the prey and strike the tongs. Putting your fingers mere millimeters from those fangs is just asking for trouble. </p><p> </p><p>Maybe you’re just putting it up as a “what if?” scenario, but people respect you and your work, and some will take this as a call to arms to prove that you can hand-feed a tarantula. Why encourage folks to knowingly put themselves in situations that can EASILY result in bites? They’re not toys, and you should not be treating them like dogs with biscuits. If someone WERE to attempt something like this, it should be attempted in a lab environment with safety precautions to prevent the feeder from getting bit. It should not be attempted by a bunch of hobbyists at home...hobbyists who might not yet have the background knowledge to appreciate the danger they are putting themselves in.</p><p> </p><p>Again, perhaps you were just floating this by as a dream experiment, but there are still going to be folks who read this and attempt it. And for what? For what will amount to a fun, throw away chapter that will lack credibility due to the anecdotal nature of it (at best), or result in new keepers unwittingly putting themselves in harm's way (at worst)? At the end of the day, the new TKG should be a bible for folks looking to get into this amazing hobby that want to <strong>learn how to keep both themselves and their spiders safe and healthy</strong>, right? </p><p> </p><p>Obviously, I’m still looking forward to the TKG4, as I think that a volume with updated husbandry and info is desperately needed. I just hope that the material doesn’t get too clouded with information that encourages new keepers to experiment with or anthropomorphize their animals. These amazing animals deserve our respect; afterall, they are not domesticated animals and they are not toys.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tomoran, post: 202506, member: 1152"] Hey, Stan. First of all, [B]HUGE[/B] respect for you and what you've done for the community. I've been eagerly awaiting the newest edition of this book for YEARS, and I was just commenting to my wife the other night that I hoped that you hadn't abandoned the project. When I noticed this post, I couldn't help but get excited. Although I appreciate the idea of including a bit about tarantula/spider intelligence, I really worry that a bunch of anecdotal stories about their supposed "learned" behavior will only further encourage folks to anthropomorphize these animals. I spend a lot of time talking to new keepers (which will likely be the targeted audience of this new edition), and they already struggle with understanding that these animals are not dogs or cats. I could fill a page with all of the crazy things that hobbyists have done with their tarantulas because they honestly believe that the animals are bonded with them (or, are showing emotional intelligence). These situations can put both the keeper and the animals at risk. I could definitely see you including a chapter that draws on some of the scientific studies that have already been done in terms of arachnid intelligence, and maybe mentioning that some folks have seen evidence that there is more going on with them than we think. However, anything else would be pure conjecture and, quite frankly, could do more harm than good. As much as you want to warn that you shouldn’t be hands-on with old world species, there are folks out there who will not differentiate. After all, if you’re saying that tarantulas can learn to accept human contact, then wouldn’t it stand to reason that ANY tarantula could be “tamed” in this manner? Many will come to this conclusion. If I’m reading the above quote correctly, you are proposing that folks could teach their spiders to eat from their fingers? I’m sorry, but this is beyond irresponsible. I’m not going to wade into the whole handling debate, because I can honestly see both sides. But I’ve fed enough tarantulas over the years to recognize that this type of “experiment” is just a bite waiting to happen. Even the most “docile” beginner species can have excellent feeding responses and can overshoot their targets. One of the reasons that we don’t encourage tong feeding is because the spiders will often miss the prey and strike the tongs. Putting your fingers mere millimeters from those fangs is just asking for trouble. Maybe you’re just putting it up as a “what if?” scenario, but people respect you and your work, and some will take this as a call to arms to prove that you can hand-feed a tarantula. Why encourage folks to knowingly put themselves in situations that can EASILY result in bites? They’re not toys, and you should not be treating them like dogs with biscuits. If someone WERE to attempt something like this, it should be attempted in a lab environment with safety precautions to prevent the feeder from getting bit. It should not be attempted by a bunch of hobbyists at home...hobbyists who might not yet have the background knowledge to appreciate the danger they are putting themselves in. Again, perhaps you were just floating this by as a dream experiment, but there are still going to be folks who read this and attempt it. And for what? For what will amount to a fun, throw away chapter that will lack credibility due to the anecdotal nature of it (at best), or result in new keepers unwittingly putting themselves in harm's way (at worst)? At the end of the day, the new TKG should be a bible for folks looking to get into this amazing hobby that want to [B]learn how to keep both themselves and their spiders safe and healthy[/B], right? Obviously, I’m still looking forward to the TKG4, as I think that a volume with updated husbandry and info is desperately needed. I just hope that the material doesn’t get too clouded with information that encourages new keepers to experiment with or anthropomorphize their animals. These amazing animals deserve our respect; afterall, they are not domesticated animals and they are not toys. [/QUOTE]
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