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<blockquote data-quote="Ceratogyrus" data-source="post: 20054" data-attributes="member: 371"><p>What evidence would you like me to post?</p><p>It is for the benefit of the hobby if I can prove that Species A is in fact a proper species and not a result of a hybrid. Anyone out there that would be happy to know that what they thought was a hybrid is on fact a true species? Of course, the species I am discussing here has been found in the wild and there is a paper currently underway describing it from what I have heard to add to my observations.</p><p>I have google, but it try not to believe everything written on there. I read once that when your spider lies on its back, it is dead. Doesn't mean its true. Or that feeding mice causes moulting problems. Doesn't mean its true.</p><p></p><p>Not sure if you would like me to reply to your points?</p><p>1. True, in fact all hybrids might be fertile for all we know when you look at the amount of hybridization in Brachypelma, Avicularia, etc. if you see the amount of albovagans or Avicularia sp. "mix-and-match" being produced, I have no doubt that hybrids are not infertile. Again, if they were, then we have nothing to worry about as they could not establish in the hobby.</p><p>2. I think that hybrids may very well occur in nature, but more often than not, the pairing would not happen due to different mating rituals, pheromones, etc. for all we know certain closely related species could have reproduced forming "new" species. There was an article regarding one of the Brachypelma's that could possibly be a natural hybrid, but can't remember which one though. Generally though, hybrids are mainly man made I believe.</p><p>3. Agree. Natural hybrids are ok with me, but I am not fond of man made hybrids as they just cause confusion amongst keepers. I think my above explanation as to why I have some is a good enough reason (For me at least) if it will help to solve a problem we have and the fact that I am not selling or even giving the spiders to anyone will make sure they are not spread into the hobby. Also, for in case the worst happens, my spiders are in my will and the person that they will be sent to is on the same page as me and understands what I am doing/trying to prove with them.</p><p>4. If I had losses from a hybrid sac I would definitely report it. It would be proof that they are weaker than normal spiders. I must be honest though, I have been keeping spiders for 20 years now and been keeping tarantulas for around 7 and I am active on a number of forums, and have never seen posts about hybrids having low successes due to deformities, etc BECAUSE they were hybrids.</p><p>5. Not sure what you are asking or saying there. Please clarify.</p><p></p><p>Conclusion. I agree, hybrids should not be spread around in the hobby. They only cause problems when people end up breeding the hybrid offspring again and could cause us to lose naturally occurring species by crossing them. I fear that with lots of Genera we are already well on the way to losing them in the hobby. That is my fear with them, not fictitious problems that occur because they are hybrids.</p><p></p><p>Hopefully that clears my stance up on the issue, but if you need me to elaborate on anything, please say. Also, please just clarify what you mean with point 5 above.</p><p></p><p>Thanks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ceratogyrus, post: 20054, member: 371"] What evidence would you like me to post? It is for the benefit of the hobby if I can prove that Species A is in fact a proper species and not a result of a hybrid. Anyone out there that would be happy to know that what they thought was a hybrid is on fact a true species? Of course, the species I am discussing here has been found in the wild and there is a paper currently underway describing it from what I have heard to add to my observations. I have google, but it try not to believe everything written on there. I read once that when your spider lies on its back, it is dead. Doesn't mean its true. Or that feeding mice causes moulting problems. Doesn't mean its true. Not sure if you would like me to reply to your points? 1. True, in fact all hybrids might be fertile for all we know when you look at the amount of hybridization in Brachypelma, Avicularia, etc. if you see the amount of albovagans or Avicularia sp. "mix-and-match" being produced, I have no doubt that hybrids are not infertile. Again, if they were, then we have nothing to worry about as they could not establish in the hobby. 2. I think that hybrids may very well occur in nature, but more often than not, the pairing would not happen due to different mating rituals, pheromones, etc. for all we know certain closely related species could have reproduced forming "new" species. There was an article regarding one of the Brachypelma's that could possibly be a natural hybrid, but can't remember which one though. Generally though, hybrids are mainly man made I believe. 3. Agree. Natural hybrids are ok with me, but I am not fond of man made hybrids as they just cause confusion amongst keepers. I think my above explanation as to why I have some is a good enough reason (For me at least) if it will help to solve a problem we have and the fact that I am not selling or even giving the spiders to anyone will make sure they are not spread into the hobby. Also, for in case the worst happens, my spiders are in my will and the person that they will be sent to is on the same page as me and understands what I am doing/trying to prove with them. 4. If I had losses from a hybrid sac I would definitely report it. It would be proof that they are weaker than normal spiders. I must be honest though, I have been keeping spiders for 20 years now and been keeping tarantulas for around 7 and I am active on a number of forums, and have never seen posts about hybrids having low successes due to deformities, etc BECAUSE they were hybrids. 5. Not sure what you are asking or saying there. Please clarify. Conclusion. I agree, hybrids should not be spread around in the hobby. They only cause problems when people end up breeding the hybrid offspring again and could cause us to lose naturally occurring species by crossing them. I fear that with lots of Genera we are already well on the way to losing them in the hobby. That is my fear with them, not fictitious problems that occur because they are hybrids. Hopefully that clears my stance up on the issue, but if you need me to elaborate on anything, please say. Also, please just clarify what you mean with point 5 above. Thanks. [/QUOTE]
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