is this cruel.......?

[RonC]

The real question is did you do it for the thrill of the show or to feed your T? I watch mine eat to make sure they eat, not to watch them kill.

 

[Tortoise Tom]

I wouldn’t do it, hell here in Scotland I was refused a goldfish from the pet store when I told them it was for my H.Gigas to hunt lol...

That's funny. I refused to sell goldfish to people who told me it was going to live in a little bowl with no filtration. I had no problem selling them to people who were going to feed them to their animals.

 

[Tortoise Tom]

The real question is did you do it for the thrill of the show or to feed your T? I watch mine eat to make sure they eat, not to watch them kill.

I like watching mine hunt down their insects. I love the strike and pursuit. The hunting prowess is part of the appeal of my predatory pets. But those insects are appropriately sized prey that aren't going to injure the tarantula, and they are going to die reasonably quickly. There won't be any fighting or "wrestle to the death".

Also, call me a hypocrite, or soft-hearted, but a mammal suffering an unnecessary, slow, torturous, painful death is not the same thing as a cricket or roach getting snatched up and having the fangs immediately pierce them to the core. When a wild hawk grabs a bunny it doesn't euthanize the bunny before eating it alive. I can't help that. When my hawk grabs a bunny, I humanely euthanize it ASAP before the hawk starts eating it. To some people this might not make any difference. Respect, reverence, and humane treatment of the prey species is of monumental importance to me, be it a roach, goldfish, a rabbit, or a mouse.

 

[Rs50matt]

I like watching mine hunt down their insects. I love the strike and pursuit. The hunting prowess is part of the appeal of my predatory pets. But those insects are appropriately sized prey that aren't going to injure the tarantula, and they are going to die reasonably quickly. There won't be any fighting or "wrestle to the death".

Also, call me a hypocrite, or soft-hearted, but a mammal suffering an unnecessary, slow, torturous, painful death is not the same thing as a cricket or roach getting snatched up and having the fangs immediately pierce them to the core. When a wild hawk grabs a bunny it doesn't euthanize the bunny before eating it alive. I can't help that. When my hawk grabs a bunny, I humanely euthanize it ASAP before the hawk starts eating it. To some people this might not make any difference. Respect, reverence, and humane treatment of the prey species is of monumental importance to me, be it a roach, goldfish, a rabbit, or a mouse.

I think with insects having such short life cycles in general it's not so bad to use them as feeders. I'm sure it happens in the wild but you wouldn't put a smaller t in as a feeder so I see no reason to use a live mouse other than to watch it fight and suffer.

With falconry I think it's as quick and Humane as possible and a reasonable way of controlling pests. On the flip side to that you have fox hunting where they chase a fox to an inch of its life then have it torn apart by a pack of dogs. That's an unnecessary way to control a pest and is cruel as it gets

 

[Avicularia Kael]

Obviously you don't think it is cruel, and as said before, just want a reaction from people or "your audience." The mouse can feel pain, and obviously shows that via squeaking, wrestling, etc. MICE can feel pain, MICE can fight back. Now what if they fed some BUG to its pet that is smaller (insects to mice) than MICE, who CAN"T feel pain. Would you rather feed the pain-feeling, squeaking mouse, or the possibly pain resistant insect who cannot seriously damage your T? It is unneeded cruelty. You probably got a T so that you can watch it brutally kill a mouse.

 

[MassExodus]

To the OP, your choice man. They're messy though. And to answer your question, maybe cruel, maybe not, but not necessary. Mice, rats, rodents in general are intelligent though. That makes it a problem, for me. I try to only kill when I have to, and roaches are just easier, on me and the spider. I always thought rodents were...well, cute. Never understood the hatred, other than that plague thing..and that was like 30 years ago..

 

[Casey K.]

I like watching mine hunt down their insects. I love the strike and pursuit. The hunting prowess is part of the appeal of my predatory pets. But those insects are appropriately sized prey that aren't going to injure the tarantula, and they are going to die reasonably quickly. There won't be any fighting or "wrestle to the death".

Also, call me a hypocrite, or soft-hearted, but a mammal suffering an unnecessary, slow, torturous, painful death is not the same thing as a cricket or roach getting snatched up and having the fangs immediately pierce them to the core. When a wild hawk grabs a bunny it doesn't euthanize the bunny before eating it alive. I can't help that. When my hawk grabs a bunny, I humanely euthanize it ASAP before the hawk starts eating it. To some people this might not make any difference. Respect, reverence, and humane treatment of the prey species is of monumental importance to me, be it a roach, goldfish, a rabbit, or a mouse.

Awwwwww......I think you touched a soft spot in my heart......

 

[Casey K.]

May I troll this thread? PUUHHLLLLEEEZZZEEE. @Enn49



(it appears someone beat me to it.....but just for ****s and giggles...)

 

[Casey K.]

I would eat @Shampain alive.....fight or no fight....bite or no bite..... I'd give him a run for his money, too.

@MassExodus and @Arachnoclown @Tortoise Tom ....i just wanna web them up and play with them.....gotta keep the bolus content down in my enclosure.....

 

[Arachnoclown]

@Casey K. Dont want to eat me??? Is it because Clowns taste funny???

 

[tom landock]

They are but I think the argument is that insects do not feel pain as we do. Mice definitely DO feel pain but there is a debate over insects so I'd rather go for the "maybe causing pain to insect" option. Another argument is have you listened to the sound a mouse makes while being eaten alive? It's horrific and just feels cruel. If you can stomach it you might be a different kind of person. And if you enjoy the sound then maybe you need psychological evaluation. And my final argument is that feeding live rodents is not at all necessary for Ts. They get more than enough sustenance form insects. Plus it is dangerous for the T. A mouse can bite back and cause a lot of damage. A hungry enough rat has eaten a snake that it was supposed to be prey for so similar could happen between mice and Ts I'd say.

Leave the rodents to snakes and even then there is no reason to feed live prey (in most cases as there are snakes that genuinely will only eat live)



We aren't discussing a wild setting. Nature will happen and there's nothing we can do about it in the wild. What we can do in captivity is make sure both prey and pet live safely and pain free for the duration of their lives.

OK, back online to read ALL..........it is a fight......but alot to enjoy....when buy crickets.....& rest die or eat each other.....so she gets 1 cricket .....OK.....so a mouse every month.

 

[tom landock]

I would eat @Shampain alive.....fight or no fight....bite or no bite..... I'd give him a run for his money, too.

@MassExodus and @Arachnoclown @Tortoise Tom ....i just wanna web them up and play with them.....gotta keep the bolus content down in my enclosure.....

you, i dont understand............oh well.

 

[tom landock]

Yes-but by definition of live feeding I mean mammals(mice .rats gerbils ect) live feeding of insects is allowed -even the feeding of snakes in the uk they have to be fed pre-killed mammals(frozen then defrosted)

THAT i find rediculous...............my T will not feed on a non-moving item............

 

[Arachnoscholar]

Whether or not it is cruel can be debated for ages. I don't think comparing a wild lion and gazelle is remotely relevant to comparing a pet spider and domestic mouse.

I am a hunter. I kill animals all the time for sport (falconry), to remove reduce pest issues (gophers, ground squirrels, rats, mice, introduced pests like English house sparrows, etc...), and to feed to other animals. I mention these things to illustrate that I'm not an animal rights whacko, or someone who isn't familiar and comfortable with animals dying.

I'm not opposed to feeding an occasional mouse to a tarantula, but I am opposed to feeding an adult mouse that is going to fight back and potentially injure the animal it is being fed to. I'm also opposed to the inhumane treatment and unnecessary suffering of any animal. There is no reason you can't thump that mouse and give it a quick humane death, and then feed it to your spider. Your spider gets no benefit from fighting and killing an adult mouse, and the potential for harm his high.

This is your second go around with this. We told you all this same stuff the last time. This is still somewhat of a free country (Although that is changing rapidly...) and you can do what you want, but this isn't right, and it has no business on a family friendly public forum. Its a bad idea, I DO think it is cruel and inhumane, and its completely unnecessary.

Anyone reading should be clear on all these points. Feeding live adult mice to any pet tarantula is not a practice to be condoned or recommended.

Very well put in my opinion. Not just in regards to the tarantula discussion, but also the comments pertaining towards how things work in nature, politics, and the general ridiculous notions that try to have people out as either nature snowflakes with a few screws loose, or simply mindless killers that enjoy harming all living things (although those types of people do exist unfortunately). But I would have to agree that while nature is nature and all that comes with that, that animals in captivity are not at all the same as those in the wild. In the hobby almost everyone is aware that when you see "CB" -captive bred- we know what that is, and if it really amounted to nothing then there would never be discussion about it. Animals in the wild are used to hunting, and through natural selection of evolution and strength, they know what prey items to go after when circumstances are right to take the risk of going for w/e prey that may be. I don't object to feeding appropriate animals mice as a food source, but I agree the feeding of live mice to be a strange risk for those that claim to care for the animals. Tarantulas are formidable compared to mice, but even crickets in all their insignificance in comparison can cause serious harm in the right circumstances as most hobbyists would also agree. And more so from that besides the risk of harm, and factors of an unsavory suffering death of the mouse/rodent when a clean/quick death could be chosen, the practice of feeding live like that is illegal in alot of places because of the mentality notions in people that it can encourage. In short to skirt the risks for the animals means it was more about the factors of a person wanting to enjoy the display of carnage however it played out in my opinion. We are all human, and like all living things are bestowed primal instincts for hunting, surviving, ETC. But I feel if a person has strong feelings in that regard channeling it into a constructive fashion is the only way that is done without a person regressing themselves mentally. What tortoise Tom said about hunting pest species, and deer hunting being perfect examples of that kind of balance, and I totally agree that the extremists are usually causing issues with common sence with one extreme or another. Yes insect prey is live most times, but as I mentioned with the crickets, I would expect the same argument from people putting a large cricket in with a smaller sling alive, instead of most commonly choosing insects of efficiently smaller size for that particular specimen to avoid any injury to the best of our abilities. I will agree also that insects aren't the same as mice biologically. The spiders venom is much more designed to 100% incapacitate the insects who do not feel things the same way a mouse would. It would take much longer for the rodent to succumb to the venom, and hence would suffer much more. Also the mouse doesn't lose very much (if any at all) nutrients by having been pre-killed even after frozen and then thawed. An insect is primarily a shell with fluids, and the instant it dies it starts to lose hydrating nutrients very rapidly. With my very young slings I do get pinhead sized insects for them when I can, and besides that i get very small crickets, crush the heads, and then even may cut those up into smaller peices for the ultra small slings. Besides feeding aspects, I also feel it's dangerous because of how tarantulas can abruptly start going into pre-molt, or fasting for some species. In those events the tarantula can completely shy away from prey items it typically attacks with gusto, and can go into a very defensive posture you otherwise wouldn't see. In these cases the mouse would/could be completely static with fear, and if I see insects recognize the danger of a tarantula being nearby the way I've observed, then that would be far more prevalent with the mouse. I'm not saying it isn't possible to feed a tarantula a mouse live and it not work of course, I'm simply pointing out that like a seatbelt, all it takes is that the 1 time circumstances line up just right for things to go terribly wrong and there would be no fixing it after that. The other personal factor for me is knowing that if a tarantula is big enough to eat any rodent alive or dead, that it would have to be an adult, or at least close to it. These amazing and beautiful creatures take a long time to grow, and I care about their well being besides just my own, and I will admit dealing with others that hypocritically demonstrate only caring about their own but help hurt others for alterior motives in turn has generated some animosity within me pertaining to that! I do respect the individual who posted this for looking for feedback (as long as it wasn't with malicious intent as ive witnessed a trend of people doing backwards things like that to revell in the social negativity it generates in a cowardly fashion) to get others to share information on their opinions, information, and social networking to get a better idea of aspects pertaining to that kind of practice. And I do hope my information, and opinions are helpful.

 

[Casey K.]

@Casey K. Dont want to eat me??? Is it because Clowns taste funny???

Merely because I need you for entertainment, sweety....after all....that's what clowns are for...

 

[Casey K.]

you, i dont understand............oh well.

Lol, it's ok.....most people don't get my sense of humor. lol

 

[tom landock]

Very well put in my opinion. Not just in regards to the tarantula discussion, but also the comments pertaining towards how things work in nature, politics, and the general ridiculous notions that try to have people out as either nature snowflakes with a few screws loose, or simply mindless killers that enjoy harming all living things (although those types of people do exist unfortunately). But I would have to agree that while nature is nature and all that comes with that, that animals in captivity are not at all the same as those in the wild. In the hobby almost everyone is aware that when you see "CB" -captive bred- we know what that is, and if it really amounted to nothing then there would never be discussion about it. Animals in the wild are used to hunting, and through natural selection of evolution and strength, they know what prey items to go after when circumstances are right to take the risk of going for w/e prey that may be. I don't object to feeding appropriate animals mice as a food source, but I agree the feeding of live mice to be a strange risk for those that claim to care for the animals. Tarantulas are formidable compared to mice, but even crickets in all their insignificance in comparison can cause serious harm in the right circumstances as most hobbyists would also agree. And more so from that besides the risk of harm, and factors of an unsavory suffering death of the mouse/rodent when a clean/quick death could be chosen, the practice of feeding live like that is illegal in alot of places because of the mentality notions in people that it can encourage. In short to skirt the risks for the animals means it was more about the factors of a person wanting to enjoy the display of carnage however it played out in my opinion. We are all human, and like all living things are bestowed primal instincts for hunting, surviving, ETC. But I feel if a person has strong feelings in that regard channeling it into a constructive fashion is the only way that is done without a person regressing themselves mentally. What tortoise Tom said about hunting pest species, and deer hunting being perfect examples of that kind of balance, and I totally agree that the extremists are usually causing issues with common sence with one extreme or another. Yes insect prey is live most times, but as I mentioned with the crickets, I would expect the same argument from people putting a large cricket in with a smaller sling alive, instead of most commonly choosing insects of efficiently smaller size for that particular specimen to avoid any injury to the best of our abilities. I will agree also that insects aren't the same as mice biologically. The spiders venom is much more designed to 100% incapacitate the insects who do not feel things the same way a mouse would. It would take much longer for the rodent to succumb to the venom, and hence would suffer much more. Also the mouse doesn't lose very much (if any at all) nutrients by having been pre-killed even after frozen and then thawed. An insect is primarily a shell with fluids, and the instant it dies it starts to lose hydrating nutrients very rapidly. With my very young slings I do get pinhead sized insects for them when I can, and besides that i get very small crickets, crush the heads, and then even may cut those up into smaller peices for the ultra small slings. Besides feeding aspects, I also feel it's dangerous because of how tarantulas can abruptly start going into pre-molt, or fasting for some species. In those events the tarantula can completely shy away from prey items it typically attacks with gusto, and can go into a very defensive posture you otherwise wouldn't see. In these cases the mouse would/could be completely static with fear, and if I see insects recognize the danger of a tarantula being nearby the way I've observed, then that would be far more prevalent with the mouse. I'm not saying it isn't possible to feed a tarantula a mouse live and it not work of course, I'm simply pointing out that like a seatbelt, all it takes is that the 1 time circumstances line up just right for things to go terribly wrong and there would be no fixing it after that. The other personal factor for me is knowing that if a tarantula is big enough to eat any rodent alive or dead, that it would have to be an adult, or at least close to it. These amazing and beautiful creatures take a long time to grow, and I care about their well being besides just my own, and I will admit dealing with others that hypocritically demonstrate only caring about their own but help hurt others for alterior motives in turn has generated some animosity within me pertaining to that! I do respect the individual who posted this for looking for feedback (as long as it wasn't with malicious intent as ive witnessed a trend of people doing backwards things like that to revell in the social negativity it generates in a cowardly fashion) to get others to share information on their opinions, information, and social networking to get a better idea of aspects pertaining to that kind of practice. And I do hope my information, and opinions are helpful.

WOW...........got a little sleepy........................

 

[Arachnoscholar]

WOW...........got a little sleepy........................

Lol people really shouldn't have to choose between articulation, and only speaking with abbreviation with emojies.

WOW...........got a little sleepy........................

Not used to reading alot? Or am I misunderstanding what seems like an attempted derogatory slight for something different? I do apologize, I didn't see an emoji that properly communicated that information!

 

[tom landock]

Lol people really shouldn't have to choose between articulation, and only speaking with abbreviation with emojies.

Not used to reading alot? Or am I misunderstanding what seems like an attempted derogatory slight for something different? I do apologize, I didn't see an emoji that properly communicated that information!

pics are better, CENTERFOLD......duh.......TY, harvard T. scholar.

 

[Casey K.]

I just want everyone to know that I am "liking" everyone's post(s) because I am entertained.

Disclaimer:
(Does not mean I "agree/disagree" with what is being said)