Hard to swallow pills for Newbies on the site

[Mr. P]

Casey K. has a point that everyone has an opinion but some are so blindly forceful with their opinions that they just become an ass, just saying.

 

[Rs50matt]

Well duh. Obviously if they are aggressive, don’t pick them up. I thought y’all were smart enough to figure that one out. Well if you want to learn about their personalities you at least got to spend time observing them if you are so against handling them. I feel like you are being a smart ass at this point. But EXACTLY. Y’all assume they don’t like being handled. See? You don’t even try to give them a chance to have a preference for it because you have assumed all your Ts hate being out of their enclosures lol. But what you do with your Ts doesn’t matter to me. Do what you want.

I know she said she's gone but I'd like to answer this

I never said my n chromatus was aggressive. How dare you assume the nature of my girl without knowing anything about her. And I think you'll find EVERYBODY on this forum spends time observing their Ts. If you spent some time observing ts you will notice a very interesting trend. I have Ts that are unreactive to me opening the enclosure ( they feel safe in their) I have Ts that as soon as I touch the enclosure go into their hide (they feel safer hidden). One thing I have never observed is a T running out of its hide to see me. My dogs and cats love attention and human interaction and whenever they want it they come and get it. This is behaviour I've never seen from any of My Ts. You spent all of this thread saying no one reads what you said properly and your doing the same thing. I said just because you can doesn't mean you should. It's not necessary and it isn't worth the risk.

 

[Incompletegeek]

Wow, this is a trainwreck of a thread but I just had to read it to the end to see how it turned out. 10/10 brilliant, would read again!

 

[Adrock]

Well I've only been keeping of tarantulas for nearly 40 years and I dont have a degree. I guess I should stop helping people...

Arachnoclown, I only have 2 T's so far, my first about 10 months ago. I can't even explain why but I LOVE my spiders, and want MORE! I consistently come to THIS forum for information, and I just want to say THANKS for people like you who share your knowledge and experience so that I can keep my T's healthy! I've gone to 4-5 petstores around town, and have found ONE with a couple people actually knowledgable; the others are obviously there for animals but just don't have the love or experience for T's; no fault to them, maybe they are experts on parrots haha! ANYWAYS, thanks again for all your posts! They have been extremely helpful!

 

[Casey K.]

My experience with pet stores (so far) is that they haven't the slightest clue on how to care for tarantulas. I went to a pet store that had a male Theraphosa stirmi for sale. Its abdomen was about the size of 2 small marbles and the abdomen was shriveled. Mind you, this tarantula had a leg span of about 7". I asked them (not mentioning a word of what i do) how they care for the animal. They said they feed it 1-2 medium size crickets a week and that it needs a heat lamp to survive. At this point I am just dying to blurt it out but I hold it in for a few more minutes.....there was a water dish in there with nothing but a dry sponge in it that had black mildew on it. The setup had sand in it (which would be ok if it was wet sand because sand holds moisture fairly well). After observing this spiders environment and obtaining information from the pet store sales associate I proceeded to ask for the manager. I asked them where they get their information on care about animals and they said a guy that works there knows all about animals (with no valid sources followed)....so i asked to speak to this man and they said he was off that day (lucky him). I went all to hell on the sales associate and the manager and asked to speak to the "man' that had so much experience with animals when he came back in and I left my #. I was pretty heated. Long story short, that stirmi and the other 4 tarantulas they had came home with me. I only go to pet stores now to buy the spiders I see. It was very sad.

 

[bbbs53]

It is a valid opinion he has and I am fairly sure there is no offense in the way it is stated. Experience is what gave it to him and observation. A lot of us have been keeping these since 1990 or longer and nothing in his opinion is wrong. To get offended because you don't like the tone is ridiculous. If there was something offensive in it, get offended at the facts, not your impression of the "tone". Part of the trouble with the world in general is this exact problem, what you say is true but I don't like the way you said it, get over it already. Too many newbies make these very mistakes or find themselves in these situations, you can read it on this forum. One of the best ways to kill a tarantula is to drop it, this can be avoided by not handling them and most of us have taken that course. You can have whatever opinion on this subject you wish, however the fact remains it is still a great way to kill a spider. His assertion that they are individuals within a species is correct, having kept many, NONE of them behave the same or in a necessarily predictable manor according to species. Some are more docile and less spooked than others, they react differently to the same stimulus. No amount of handling will take the wild out of these creatures, they don't get picked up in nature unless it is to be eaten so it won't ever become used to being handled. One individual or another might tolerate it but there is no indication they get used to it or enjoy anything. Transferring human emotions on to anything usually leads to error, as he said they aren't 8 legged cats. Overreacting to the tone is counterproductive and a distraction from the original point which is still valid. To get better insight into this all I would recommend reading the Schultzes book on keeping these in captivity. If you want to be left alone, quit posting to this thread.

 

[Casey K.]

Ok......i got more popcorn!!!

 

[nubka]

I would like to say that I found your aggressive and assertive language to be highly impolite. You did however inspire me to make mine less so. Here’s what I have to say about handling and the arguments made in this community. I have gotten quite a significant amount of backlash for my beliefs which I find to be concerning since everyone here should be free to have their own opinion and be deemed respectable regardless of such apparent differences. I have also heard some arguments here that don’t seem to make much sense when it comes to the rational nature of animal behavior. First, let me site my sources. I don’t simply parrot other individuals opinions unless they have some sort of professional degree and experience. Such as direct interaction with the subject at hand. Caring for simply doesn’t count in my opinion. You cannot care for a horse and say you know all about it, unless you ride it. Thus, you simply cannot say you know how a tarantula reacts to handling if you never handle them. You have to try and handle them often and observe their behaviors with a level of awareness and sensibility. One of my family members has gotten degrees in animal behavior and various life science (biology) degrees. This has proven to be quite an aid for me during this journey. Let me start out with the first argument. “Some tarantulas are too docile to defend themselves” this is going against basic common sense when it comes to animal and arachnid behavior. An organism as simplistic as a spider relies almost solely on instinct. Being too afraid to defend oneself is a human characteristic. That’s because humans pull from past experiences which shape their beliefs and behavior. Arachnids are not so. They rely on instinct. “Fight or flight” so to speak. They won’t be “too scared” to defend themselves. Second, “spiders will tolerate you holding them”. This ones evilly popular in this little community. And it’s incorrect. A spider is too simplistic to tolerate behavior. Not convinced? A dog will tolerate undesirable behavior from their human because they like them. A woman tolerates her boyfriends lack of manners because she likes him. Arachnids do not tolerate things because they either like what you are doing and or not. If an arachnid disliked you handling them, they would threat posture if they weren’t docile, or if they were in fact docile, they would run away or jump off. They wouldn’t just sit there in a state of wild fear. animals do not conceal their current mental state, again, that is a human characteristic. If an arachnid is afraid, they will curl up and back away when you try and touch them. When an arachnid is afraid, they will seek a safe place as that is their natural disposition. None can argue with the simplistic laws of nature. Third, “only rely on experienced caretakers for advice, not guide books, pet stores, or your emotions”. All three of these “unreliable” sources are actually excellent sources of knowledge one should take advantage of. All of the caretakers here mostly form their arguments off of life experience. It is important to live your life and gain experience on your own. Every arachnid is a special snowflake. No two are alike. I would recommend you learn and study your own individual arachnids behavior to learn about its preferences. About animals and arachnids having preferences, I’ll certainly address this topic further along. Do any of you know how hard it is to actually publish a book? Let alone a scientific source? How many times that draft is fact checked? Who writes books? People with degrees!! Ahhh. Yes. People who have devoted large portions of their lives to studying arachnids. And a bunch of hobbyists think they know more? That sounds slightly arrogant if I do say so myself. Also pet stores are a business. Businesses want to make money. How are they going to make money if they tell people lies about their pets? They don’t! That’s why pet stores stay in business. what a revolutionary concept! I have heard so many hobbyists and caretakers say that pet stores are uninformed. What if they gave someone bad advice and that killed their pet? Lawsuits, money loss, bad reputation. That is precisely why they fact check their advice heavily. Managers do not write the flyers, corporate does. We are all born with a special gift called intuition. This guides us when we make important decisions such as doing the right thing by our animals. If someone hear a noise outside and their dog suddenly wanted to go outside, if that person had a bad feeling inside, would you not suggest them to listen to it? Our intuition guides us whether we listen to it or not. Fifth, “spiders can’t enjoy things”. I’m sorry, what? if these hobbyists say arachnids dislike handling, can’t they like things as well? Every animal, insect, and arachnid has preferences. That’s basically their entire personality. Why is each arachnid different? It is all simply based on their preferences. Some tarantulas like to spend their time in a certain spot in their enclosure. Some tarantulas extremely dislike hands in their enclosure, and will try and bite the invader. See? It’s all a matter of preference, which is what makes these tarantulas so unique and diverse. Sixth, “tarantulas don’t sleep”. Actually, if you truly want to be technical, every organism is dormant at some period of time. Organisms cannot be active at all hours every day, so they have a period of time where they are to be dormant or inactive. This is what I mean when I causally throw around the word “nap”. My apologies for all the uproar I have caused.
I was also told by a hobbyist that it would harm my tarantula to give her heat lights, come to find out the very reason why she’s been dwelling in the hood of my sweatshirt these past 2 days. She was freezing in her enclosure. She was trying to warm herself by going to my hood. Today I am heading to the store to get equipment for her enclosure, last night she stayed in her makeshift warm-hide ( which I made for her) all night to stay warm. She hasn’t needed to be in my hood again. See? She was not stressed like hobbyists told me she was. She was freezing cold. For anyone, please form your own opinions. It will not get you anywhere in life to blindly follow others. Also, if tarantulas survived in the wild, then mine will certainly thrive in her 12by 12 enclosure. Lastly, some hold their arachnids and some do not, you should learn to be mature and respect others opinions. Also, you have never met my tarantula. I know her better than anyone else.

Paragraph breaks. Please.

 

[wmolina13]

Wow. ethlynnn sounds like the typical millennial. Wants everyone to be open & accepting of her opinion but can't be the same towards those whose opinions differ from hers. Then when things get to be too much resorts to "I don't care what y'all do w/ your t's, leave me alone." I picture a door slamming & her sitting on her bed w/ her arms crossed pouting. This was all quite entertaining.

 

[Turtlynne]

Who said this is a "trainwreck"? Dare we get onboard? Nope!! But thanks for including it on the weekly Highlights!

 

[Davidm41]

I don't care who's wrong or right, I just enjoy watching people argue.

 

[Beowulf68]

Interesting discussion here. But both have valued points from two different views. Personally I inherited a Megaphobema robustum, and I found very some information that was good on here from other owners. She is in a 10 gallon aquarium with a tunnel completely around the bottom. She eats like a horse and I have had no issues with her. And no I don't handle her,

 

[Will-batayte]

Like anything else some pet stores may be very knowledgeable and others are not. I've came across the neighborhood petco doing incredibly stupid and dangerous(to the animal) things with their reptiles. But then at the other petco there's a manager who is a veritable wealth of info. Then you also have mom and pop stores that could know everything to nothing about their wards. Truth is there are a ton of places to learn from. None should be discounted. If I ask a question and I get a bunch of different answers I look for the one that seems to be the most respected and the one that makes the most sense when considering the facts I already know. Use all the resources you can and learn as much as you can from all of them including your own experiences and the behavior of your pets.

 

[arachnomorph]

read my original post. it explains everything there very clearly

Probably bc its a self-absorbed wall of rambled and jumbled wall of text. ('Intuition' Is that like ur spidey sense tingling?)

...You have to try and handle them often.

'Them' because 'theyre all the same' I guess.
Obviously it depends on the temperament of the animal and one's familiarity with it. As well as, their overall experience. Put your hand near the wrong one and you could, depending on your health, be in for a life-changing experience. Im sure there are people here of all ages.

I was also told by a hobbyist that it would harm my tarantula to give her heat lights

It can. In a couple of ways. If you have to use one it should be 8" away and definitely not shining bright light into the whole tank. Bright light in anyone's eyes is annoying. Sudden bright light can kill some insects at certain stages, ie. a foundling ant queen.

She was freezing in her enclosure. .. She was freezing cold.

Then the solution is a space heater. That the T has to signal through its desperation to get away from the cold does not suggest you're focused on the needs of the animal very much. La Crosse makes a decent inexpensive thermometer/hygrometer combo. You learn the native temperature range make sure the room stays in that range.

--anyway. This is my first post here. Nice to meet you.

 

[Arachnoclown]

 

[BossRoss]

I never said that people with experience are wrong or incorrect. Also if you look at my past posts, I did receive comments telling me I shouldn’t handle my tarantulas. My purpose here was trying to refute this persons argument on a bunch of different areas, not just the one you are mentioning. I wanted to be credible by using a family member with a degree is my source. Since I clicked your profile and it told me you were 46 I logically assumed you were 6. My apologies. What I really want is newbies to not JUST listen to others, but to learn on their own. As you can see, this person who created this thread was saying that newbies need to swallow this pills and learn what they should be doing? Don’t you agree that what they said is illogical and wrong? Don’t you agree that we shouldn’t be saying those things to anyone, let alone new comers? That is my whole point. I would love it if you saw the BIG PICTURE. As a new comer, I found this hostile, so I naturally responded with hostility. I’m also not trying to be unkind. Please forgive me for my assertiveness earlier. I guess you could say I didn’t have a very good start here in this forum.

With your logic in mind; according to the opinions of friends and family who are neurologists and physiologist you are incompetent and have no idea what you are talking about and are spewing absolute ignorance, please seek help. People like you will make idiots handle a Tarantula, get bitten by said Tarantula, cause a huge scene and will tarnish a hobby that is already in the balance of being banned and is highly controlled in some countries. Any one of the fake news outlets would love to sensationalize a spider bite story to get views on their web page, which leads to revenue.


So according to you we should just let a small child play with an adult lion so that the child can figure out the lion? Because of people like you many of the long-time keepers have left the forums.


As humans, and especially as children we learn things from other humans. Whether by observation or be teachings.

...An organism as simplistic as a spider relies almost solely on instinct...

If a spider is so simple, why have scientist and biologist not figured out a way to reproduce silk/webbing like spiders do?

...They wouldn’t just sit there in a state of wild fear. ...

You have, evidently, never seen an animal that has been abused. I’ve seen Asian and African Elephants cower from a human, a fraction of the Elephant’s size, with a stick.

...People with degrees!! Ahhh. Yes. People who have devoted large portions of their lives to studying arachnids. And a bunch of hobbyists think they know more? That sounds slightly arrogant if I do say so myself.. ...

Cite your sources.... Where is all this research people have been doing for years?????? Spiders and especially Tarantulas have little to no medical significance and therefor are not studied nearly as much as they should be. One of the individuals who has done the most research on Ts used to be on these forms, until he got tired of newbies he thought they knew best(amongst other things)

...Also pet stores are a business. Businesses want to make money. How are they going to make money if they tell people lies about their pets? They don’t! That’s why pet stores stay in business.....

I know you're a little young but pet business make money by pushing stock. The more stock pushed the more money. They'll say anything to get you to buy a Tarantula and a whole bunch of unnecessary extras. Also there are little to no laws governing how a T should be kept and sold. A pet shop could say/do just about anything with regards to Ts and you have no legal recourse.

You are also, probably, one of those people who believes everything their car mechanic says... Speaking of; have you replaced your muffler bearing lately?! I’d also recommend upgrading to the new short throw dipsticks…

...We are all born with a special gift called intuition. This guides us when we make important decisions such as doing the right thing.....

I assume that's why everything has warning labels now days?!

I assure you that pet stores care guides are not out of date. I have one that I obtained when I purchased Hershey. It is perfectly up to date. That would be illegal if they were out of date and there would be money loss.

Please cite the law that makes this illegal? Does this "law" apply to every country all around the world?

...All I am tbh is a tiny 18 year old with a high IQ. Beyond that, I’m nothing....

Strange sentence to put on a forum. But you do realize some people here have been keeping T's longer than you have been alive?? Why not just take their advice with a pinch of salt and move on your life. Use what you want, ignore what you don't want.

Sorry I forgot, you're the new generation Z... Where you are right even when you are wrong... and when you don't get your way you throw a tantrum and walk away. Luckily the internet is forever, I hope you read this thread in a few years and shudder at what you wrote.



Still not sure if I should laugh at the troll or cry from the ignorance.


To anyone who has made it this far in this klusterphuck of a thread, please, please do as much research as you can about any animal you intend to own or come in contact with. Use all your learnings, with common logic and all your senses in every single situation. Don’t be a hero and think you know best from the get go.

 

[Whitelightning777]

My experience with pet stores (so far) is that they haven't the slightest clue on how to care for tarantulas. I went to a pet store that had a male Theraphosa stirmi for sale. Its abdomen was about the size of 2 small marbles and the abdomen was shriveled. Mind you, this tarantula had a leg span of about 7". I asked them (not mentioning a word of what i do) how they care for the animal. They said they feed it 1-2 medium size crickets a week and that it needs a heat lamp to survive. At this point I am just dying to blurt it out but I hold it in for a few more minutes.....there was a water dish in there with nothing but a dry sponge in it that had black mildew on it. The setup had sand in it (which would be ok if it was wet sand because sand holds moisture fairly well). After observing this spiders environment and obtaining information from the pet store sales associate I proceeded to ask for the manager. I asked them where they get their information on care about animals and they said a guy that works there knows all about animals (with no valid sources followed)....so i asked to speak to this man and they said he was off that day (lucky him). I went all to hell on the sales associate and the manager and asked to speak to the "man' that had so much experience with animals when he came back in and I left my #. I was pretty heated. Long story short, that stirmi and the other 4 tarantulas they had came home with me. I only go to pet stores now to buy the spiders I see. It was very sad.

I rescued my T stirmi from a pet store too. I did manage to talk to the owner and get him to sell more beginner friendly or awesome but hardy OW species, that by sheer chance I'm thinking of getting later.

After showing him a picture of H pulchripes, he now listens to my every word.

Mindy's cage was the most challenging build & it took me hours to get it right & then I had to improve it again. Sheesh!!

Now I have to build her forever home.....

 

[Whitelightning777]

Ethlynnn, as far as handling goes (purely my opinion) it's best to minimize it.

You should feel free to look up the bite report I posted a while back. It was an emergency & she bolted from the cage.

https://tarantulaforum.com/threads/t-stirmi-really-jacked-me-up.23051/

The pics are self explanatory.

Yes, it hurt...a lot.

No, it's NOT a bee sting. It's much more like those huge wood wasps when they get you x2. Both of her fangs work!!

I don't think you have to handle or get bitten to understand them.

I certainly don't have to get shot with my AK-47 just to learn how to sight it in!!

No one here is messing with your mind!! We aren't like....well.....other websites that shan't be named!!

 

[Casey K.]

Ethlynnn, as far as handling goes (purely my opinion) it's best to minimize it.

You should feel free to look up the bite report I posted a while back. It was an emergency & she bolted from the cage.

https://tarantulaforum.com/threads/t-stirmi-really-jacked-me-up.23051/

The pics are self explanatory.

Yes, it hurt...a lot.

No, it's NOT a bee sting. It's much more like those huge wood wasps when they get you x2. Both of her fangs work!!

I don't think you have to handle or get bitten to understand them.

I certainly don't have to get shot with my AK-47 just to learn how to sight it in!!

No one here is messing with your mind!! We aren't like....well.....other websites that shan't be named!!

Oh, they should be named, lol.....same as a disclaimer at the end of our terms of service, lol.....as a courtesy "warning", so to speak.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Or the favorite phrase, your mileage may vary.