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Haha,still a close guess 3 and 4cm not much in it.Hmm just measured. 4cm exactly
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a. versi sling setup?
- Thread starter Tyronne
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Maybe I am just underestimating the size of your Avic/ avic enclosure and that's whats making the cage the GBB is in look bigger to me. The gbb still looks bigger than 4cm to me but I clearly don't know the size of that cageHmm just measured. 4cm exactly
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- 38
- Location
- South Africa
Hehe. She was just in the perfect position to measure! Oh and the versi just started some more webbing. At this rate the enclosure should be all nicely webbed up in a couple days.Maybe I am just underestimating the size of your Avic/ avic enclosure and that's whats making the cage the GBB is in look bigger to me. The gbb still looks bigger than 4cm to me but I clearly don't know the size of that cage
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I am so happy,soon yours will be like mine. The only thing you see is the web,until it is hungry or thirsty.
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Well look at that!!
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- 322
- Location
- South Florida
What works for many of in the US for Avic slings is a 16 oz deli cup with several rows of small holes near the top, an inch of dry substrate, a piece of plastic plant (and cork if you want), and a small water bowl. The lid can be partially peeled back if there's silk at the top. I use forceps for cage maintenance. Avics are used to things drying out up in the trees where they live and are very sensitive to moist, stuffy cages. That often kills them. Moist substrate can be a death sentence for them. There should never be condensation.
Versi slings usually spin a silk sheet in their cage pretty quickly, I've had some start within minutes. With any Avic sling, the more anchor points for spinning the better. I mist my 2nd instar Avic slings once a week or so, very lightly, and only on the silk sheet/tube, for drink, not humidity. After a few sheds, I don't mist at all. At around a 2" legspan, I move them into 32 oz deli cups, with the same set up inside.
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Like me and you have discussed,I won't suggest using wet substrate like I do and agree about the ventilation which can be seen on my setups as well. With the way I make my cages,the upside down way works great for me. I can just pick up the top change substrate and not once break a nest or disturb the specimen.
Then when feeding,I can again pick up the top part not disturb the nest turn it over drop in the feeder and wham it can eat turn it over enclosure is closed. In a normal setup,if I change substrate I will have to destroy the nest since it will at times either semi close or fully close the top.
Feeding in a normal enclosure isn't an issue like my setups have no problem as well,but just the fact I can do any maintenance and not once disturb the specimen mine is one up on the normal one. Also when having a plant attached to the top part,it is never in the way when removing the bottom where as mostly the other way around it isn't easy accessible.
So both have merits,but looking at the pros and cons,the old method loses some ground. Even front opening enclosures have been an issue,I had avics attaching webs to the enclosure opening and were at times disturbed. I would easily challenge someone on this,just changing substrate or getting into the cage area can be an issue due to webbing. I can even just turn it around and easily remove an uneaten feeder.
I guess I would suggest to someone test the two cage setups,be honest and open on the findings. Use logical perspective,and see how it works out. Now back to how to keep avics,like I mentioned above I won't suggest to keep them like I do bit keeping them like others do hasn't worked we have extreme temperatures and we have very dry air.
Added
Something I know that sets my setup apart from the normal one,I can do a whole cage cleaning without needing a catch cup nor moving the T nor needing another area to hold the T while this is done something I haven't mentioned but shows how nice and good the setup is. Poec you've got to admit,this point is just so strong no escapee no bite report I can say almost newbie proof haha.
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I have been reading this on both forums, what I'm not understanding is why people think they need dry substrate? They are from jungles, which are very moist. I just find it odd people are now insisting they must have dry substrate. I actually asked John3800, from youtube, his opinion on it yesterday and this was his response.
"Bobby,
Avics NEED moist substrate because that provides humidity that can last for days. Misting the enclosures...only provides humidity for a few hours before everything dries up.
Avics NEED this humidity accompanied with GOOD ventilation. If you keep avics too dry ,they'll die"
Now I'm not saying this guy is an expert or that he writes the rules, but he is a knowledgeable person that gives many people advice online. So when reading completely contradicting information from different experienced keepers it makes me question who is right. "Common sense" would make you assume moist substrate because they are from a jungle environment, however I do see your point that the tops of trees will dry out. But those trees are still going to be humid. Is there a reference online supporting the dry substrate theory, even a big thread on it on one of the two forums maybe? Just trying to learn about both sides
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- 322
- Location
- South Florida
No, he's not an expert, or he'd know his advice would kill most people's Avics. If you live in a semi-arid region or desert, and use screen tops, his advice many work. A lot of people give advice online and write care sheets, and both are notorious for dispensing questionable advice. I've seen many 'My Dead Avic' threads and the common denominator is insufficient ventilation and too much moisture. What people fail to understand is that breezes quickly dry out the trees in the tropics. Avics are used to regular air movement. Put them in a moist stuffy cage and usually they die. Same thing for epiphytic plants like grey-leaf Tillandsias; put them in a pot of top soil and keep them moist and see how long they take to rot. The way to provide humidity for Avics is with a water bowl. I have 10 species of Avics that I keep that way. I used to give them slightly moist substrate and had too many losses. Once I switched to dry sub and added airholes, my Avics have done fine. The reference s many threads and posts on the Arachnoboards, it works.
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So all your avics are kept on completely bone dry substrate with a water bowl for humidity?
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Hello
I still stand by the fact that this does work,from sling to large specimens. I also have 10 species to care for from the genus. According to the new way care for Avicularia,all mine should be dead. I like to be objective listen draw advice,but if you have one ounce of logic you'd read up on them and that is how a hobbyist should be since with any other Tarantula we would look at the origins and natural habitat as reference.
I posted a piece on another board,about the exact rainfall humidity etc of their natural habitat where they originate from. Not a jungle,but a rainforest. Then it was pointed out that a certain area in America was deemed a rainforest,yet again I provided data not My data. This showed that the two similarities can be drawn,but not truly even close.
Lets make an example
- Okay rainforest South America on average 8 out of 12 months rain
- At least 70 up to over 250inches of rain,compared to a max rainfall of 60-70 for the same area in North america deemed rain forest.
- Now some really awesome info,each canopy tree even if there is no rainfall still contributes 700-800 liter of water per year per tree just imagine how much water and how many trees per square meter. This all points to top areas(Canopy natural dome effect) giving water,and lower areas being wet.
So this is how I will some up the dry vs the wet substrate,why this can work both ways is the fact they might be able to tolerate it. Also,if you have a water dish or wet the sub isn't the water content still equating to the same amount and all concentrated at the bottom of the cage ? I am willing to go so far as to say,stuffy air well the water in the dish will take longer to evaporate than misting your substrate.
Or is the water in the dish special ? Since I do not use a dish and wet substrate,doesn't matter I'm not doubling up so water content in the whole should equate as the same amount and both are concentrated below. Water in substrate will have more airflow through it,since it has air pockets unless one compacts it tightly where as a water bowl the water just lies there. Do a test and I'd love an independent person do this,put water in a bowl and same amount onto substrate same exact cage setups and see which dries out faster the water in the bowl or in the substrate(normal coco peat or peat moss no vermiculite)
In no way is this an argument or should it be taken that way,we have different views how we do things. It is up to the reader to be unbiased and for him to read draw from it and research and test theories. If you blindly follow anyone, that is the first and largest mistake ever. Biggest Secret, Read Test apply.
I still stand by the fact that this does work,from sling to large specimens. I also have 10 species to care for from the genus. According to the new way care for Avicularia,all mine should be dead. I like to be objective listen draw advice,but if you have one ounce of logic you'd read up on them and that is how a hobbyist should be since with any other Tarantula we would look at the origins and natural habitat as reference.
I posted a piece on another board,about the exact rainfall humidity etc of their natural habitat where they originate from. Not a jungle,but a rainforest. Then it was pointed out that a certain area in America was deemed a rainforest,yet again I provided data not My data. This showed that the two similarities can be drawn,but not truly even close.
Lets make an example
- Okay rainforest South America on average 8 out of 12 months rain
- At least 70 up to over 250inches of rain,compared to a max rainfall of 60-70 for the same area in North america deemed rain forest.
- Now some really awesome info,each canopy tree even if there is no rainfall still contributes 700-800 liter of water per year per tree just imagine how much water and how many trees per square meter. This all points to top areas(Canopy natural dome effect) giving water,and lower areas being wet.
So this is how I will some up the dry vs the wet substrate,why this can work both ways is the fact they might be able to tolerate it. Also,if you have a water dish or wet the sub isn't the water content still equating to the same amount and all concentrated at the bottom of the cage ? I am willing to go so far as to say,stuffy air well the water in the dish will take longer to evaporate than misting your substrate.
Or is the water in the dish special ? Since I do not use a dish and wet substrate,doesn't matter I'm not doubling up so water content in the whole should equate as the same amount and both are concentrated below. Water in substrate will have more airflow through it,since it has air pockets unless one compacts it tightly where as a water bowl the water just lies there. Do a test and I'd love an independent person do this,put water in a bowl and same amount onto substrate same exact cage setups and see which dries out faster the water in the bowl or in the substrate(normal coco peat or peat moss no vermiculite)
In no way is this an argument or should it be taken that way,we have different views how we do things. It is up to the reader to be unbiased and for him to read draw from it and research and test theories. If you blindly follow anyone, that is the first and largest mistake ever. Biggest Secret, Read Test apply.
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- Messages
- 322
- Location
- South Florida
I've got 90 Avics (10 species) kept that way, sling to adult (with 2 females sitting on sacs). All have dry substrate, cross ventilation, and water bowls. This works in most situations. In a dry climate you may want a little more moisture, but for the vast majority of owners, dry substrate with a water bowl is the key to keeping Avics alive long term. I'm in Florida, we get 50-60" of rain annually, most of it over 4 months in the summer. The rains are usually in the afternoon as the heat builds up, and some days we'll get 2" or 3". At noon it's hot and sunny; midafternoon it gets dark, and rains heavily. By late afternoon/early evening it's hot and sunny again and the trees have dried out, even though there may still be puddles on the ground. That's what rains are usually like in the tropics, bright sunshine before and after. The sun is more intense the closer you get to the equator and it dries things faster after rains.
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I think the layer that dries out in the jungle trees, is the layer that is exposed to the breezes up above the rest of the smaller trees. I remember watching something on it a while back. So what qualifies as a dry climate too you, where it would be necessary for some moisture? I'm from Colorado and I would say its pretty dry here, at least humidity wise. Definitely compared to Florida. I kept a few Avics in the past and always kept them on moist substrate. Never to the point you could ring it out but I wouldn't let it dry out either. They both grew to MM and died in my care, so it must of not mattered much, at least in my case. I have one A. avic now I have been keeping on moist substrate, so now I am trying to decide what would be a better route to take as I am going to rehouse soon. I also plan to collect more Avic species in the future so I would like to find the best method
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Hello
You're highest trees contribute the 700-800 liters of water a year,even with zero rainfall. Go and have a look on the net,search trips to Guiana(not Guiana only) etc. If you don't find anything,I will supply links look at where they find a lot of avics(houses tents crossing rivers swimming from 6m in a tree up to 200 feet even a low tree next to the river) etc and just look at the general rainforest.
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Wouldn't the highest trees be emergent trees? I don't think those are going to be producing that much water? I could be wrong, I will go look up the trips to Guiana now.
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Only thing coming up when I search "trips to Guiana" is travel sites
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Emergent would be,but avics are found around homes trees 6m up to 200ft which would be emergent. So all avics under the canopy which is at 98-100ft,should then be dead ? That is the general hypothesis,and from 98-100ft you have massive amounts of water trapped.
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I will post links,not to worry.Only thing coming up when I search "trips to Guiana" is travel sites
1st add Avicularia swimming
2nd add Avicularia flooded from nest How is that possible,unless they do live in lower areas.
http://www.masterfile.com/stock-pho...nual-20-30-rise-of-the-Amazon-River-caused-by
3rd add on a palm leaf ?
http://andrebaertschi.photoshelter.com/image/I00000V2kzMCxMNo
4th add Avicularia on a palm tree
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28092414@N03/3920809662
5th add Avicularia at the lodge and a mature female on a leaf,yet again a palm.
http://www.minaxtarantulas.se/tambopata-peru/
6th add Avicularia on a leaf
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bigal_river_conservation_project_ecuador/3188547692/
7th add Avicularia on a tree
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho....-Jacobi-Andrew-Smith-G.-Tansley-P.-Carpenter
8th add Avicularia climbs Tree trunk
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/p...trunk-in-high-res-stock-photography/103021373
9th add Avicularia babies in a log
http://robertpickett.photoshelter.com/image/I0000mg..ZLXCZVQ
10th add Avicularia on tree stump
http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp?imageid=578153
11th add Avicularia on tree stump
http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp?imageid=578155
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I have seen this video before, only one I can find. I agree with you though, I'm not understanding how moisture can be so bad for them. I can understand moisture and not enough ventilation, but I don't see the problem in a properly ventilated cage with moist sub
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I will add more if need be,just let me know.
