Wejaens Tarantula Corner

[wejaen101]

My Avic Avic female. Just bred her today.

 

[tcrave]

congrats on the paring

 

[wejaen101]

Thanks so now i hope for the best

 

[spidey noob]

congrats dude

 

[Poec54]

It was fun indeed,and I can actually laugh at those now who state a T isn't aggressive. This move proved otherwise, actually coming forward repeatedly to strike and kept moving forward. Usually a T transfered would go into a corner,where this one circled its new enclosure for a while. The meaning for aggressive is to move forward to attack,defensive standing ground or moving backwards this T obviously like a lot of reports I've read is definitely aggressive.

It's a response to an intruder that gets too close, not a spider going after people randomly from a distance. They want to make sure you get the message to leave. A 'spirited' defense, but still a defense. I imagine that monkeys and apes go after the fruits in the trees and palms Stromatopelma live in, and probably wouldn't mind snacking on a spider too if they ran across one. Stromatopelma wouldn't have evolved this behavior unless it aided their survival. To me, 'aggressive' is initiating an attack, and 'defensive' is responding to an attack or potential imminent attack. Defense can involve movement in any direction required until the intruder leaves and the threat is over. If you stay away from a Stromatopelma, you have nothing to worry about; get too close and you may get a lesson you won't soon forget. I can picture monkeys tormenting arboreal tarantulas, who have limited options for where to hide, and that may be one reason most arboreal tarantulas have stronger venoms (potentially all except the Avic group).

As you walk down the street, dogs may bark and even chase you when you're close to their yard, and stop after you've passed. They didn't seek you out. You were an intruder that entered their territory and they asked you to leave in a way that got your attention. Although you may get bit, it was your advance that prompted the incident. They responded. They see you as an unwelcome animal creating a problem and them as fully justified in resolving it. In the animal world, that's defensive behavior. In the human world of laws and ordinances, it's aggressive, as we don't like dogs to defend their territory. When doing routine maintenance, compare a B smithi kicking hairs to a Stromatopelma running towards you: both are defensive responses to your presence. Benevolent as our intentions may be, the human initiated the incident. Territory was invaded. We may consider the smithi's response as reasonable, and the Stromatopelma's excessive, but we don't know the intensity of predation they encounter in their native habitats. Evolution has taught them what is 'too close' and what is an effective method of hastening an intruder's departure.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

It's a response to an intruder that gets too close, not a spider going after people randomly from a distance. They want to make sure you get the message to leave. A 'spirited' defense, but still a defense. I imagine that monkeys and apes go after the fruits in the trees and palms Stromatopelma live in, and probably wouldn't mind snacking on a spider too if they ran across one. Stromatopelma wouldn't have evolved this behavior unless it aided their survival. To me, 'aggressive' is initiating an attack, and 'defensive' is responding to an attack or potential imminent attack. Defense can involve movement in any direction required until the intruder leaves and the threat is over. If you stay away from a Stromatopelma, you have nothing to worry about; get too close and you may get a lesson you won't soon forget. I can picture monkeys tormenting arboreal tarantulas, who have limited options for where to hide, and that may be one reason most arboreal tarantulas have stronger venoms (potentially all except the Avic group).

As you walk down the street, dogs may bark and even chase you when you're close to their yard, and stop after you've passed. They didn't seek you out. You were an intruder that entered their territory and they asked you to leave in a way that got your attention. Although you may get bit, it was your advance that prompted the incident. They responded. They see you as an unwelcome animal creating a problem and them as fully justified in resolving it. In the animal world, that's defensive behavior. In the human world of laws and ordinances, it's aggressive, as we don't like dogs to defend their territory. When doing routine maintenance, compare a B smithi kicking hairs to a Stromatopelma running towards you: both are defensive responses to your presence. Benevolent as our intentions may be, the human initiated the incident. Territory was invaded. We may consider the smithi's response as reasonable, and the Stromatopelma's excessive, but we don't know the intensity of predation they encounter in their native habitats. Evolution has taught them what is 'too close' and what is an effective method of hastening an intruder's departure.

Aggression is overt, often harmful, social interaction with the intention of inflicting damage or other unpleasantness upon another individual. It is a virtually universal behavior among animals. It may occur either in retaliation or without provocation. In humans, frustration due to blocked goals can cause aggression.

aggression is a response by an individual that delivers something unpleasant to another person. Some definitions include that the individual must intend to harm another person

Aggression can take a variety of forms which may be expressed physically or communicated verbally or non-verbally: including anti-predator aggression, defensive aggression (fear-induced), predatory aggression, dominance aggression, inter-male aggression, resident-intruder aggression, maternal aggression, species-specific aggression, sex-related aggression, territorial aggression, isolation-induced aggression, irritable aggression, and brain-stimulation-induced aggression (hypothalamus).

I think looking at the description of aggressive it does apply,I can highlight a lot of points there and use them applicable to situations. One may try and explain or rewrite a certain situation,but one had to apply the correct terminology. The tarantula might act defensive,but if that should turn into an attack will become defensive aggressive. Now chasing a intruder,will then be intruder aggression see it change ? As soon as the aggressor leaves the habitat,and that attack continues what is now defended ?

If that specimen leaves its home/hide/enclosure,it isn't defending any area belonging to it ? Now it is just what ? Pure aggression, we need to apply correct explanations and not apply what will be more acceptable for society or the hobby. Since sugarcoating it,is like saying oh get a Lampropelma they aren't aggressive just defensive. We might as well tell beginners to get an OBT ? Since,if they don't go into the tarantulas house/home/personal space nothing should happen ? I stand by the above,and will gladly point out the terminology that correctly applies.

HIGHLIGHTS
- including anti-predator aggression(human being seen as the predator like stated not by me)
- resident-intruder aggression(entering the enclosure)
- defensive aggression (fear-induced)
- It may occur either in retaliation or without provocation

 

[Poec54]

You can't apply the laws of civilized society to animals. Advancing or retreating is a human legal distinction. Their territory also encompasses their hunting ground, not just their retreat or lair. While we consider it aggression if someone hits us if we walk on their lawn, it's totally different in the animal world. When you walk on an animal's territory, innocent and oblivious as you may be, by your presence you are issuing a challenge to the animal that considers that territory to be theirs.

If you lived in West Africa and had a tall fruit tree in your yard with a Stromatopelma in it, it's not going to run down and bite you when you walk by that tree. But if you climb the tree to pick fruit, you are in the spider's territory, you've inadvertently challenged it. It may engage you to get you to leave. In a human court of law, the spider is the aggressor. In nature, you are. They decide when they feel their life is threatened, and whether their territory has been invaded, not you. People that get near a mother grizzly bear and are attacked; we consider that to be an aggressive bear. To the bear, it's defending it's cubs and you were a perceived threat. You confronted it, and it responded. Human law and legal fine print is irrelevant in nature. As long as you look at it from a civilized society perspective, you won't understand their motivation. A spider's cage is it's territory, and some species may consider the area around it theirs too. Some want a buffer zone, especially if they live with relentless predators. Again, they decide what is theirs, not humans.

 

[Martin Oosthuysen]

You can't apply the laws of civilized society to animals. Advancing or retreating is a human legal distinction. Their territory also encompasses their hunting ground, not just their retreat or lair. While we consider it aggression if someone hits us if we walk on their lawn, it's totally different in the animal world. When you walk on an animal's territory, innocent and oblivious as you may be, by your presence you are issuing a challenge to the animal that considers that territory to be theirs.

If you lived in West Africa and had a tall fruit tree in your yard with a Stromatopelma in it, it's not going to run down and bite you when you walk by that tree. But if you climb the tree to pick fruit, you are in the spider's territory, you've inadvertently challenged it. It may engage you to get you to leave. In a human court of law, the spider is the aggressor. In nature, you are. They decide when they feel their life is threatened, and whether their territory has been invaded, not you. People that get near a mother grizzly bear and are attacked; we consider that to be an aggressive bear. To the bear, it's defending it's cubs and you were a perceived threat. You confronted it, and it responded. Human law and legal fine print is irrelevant in nature. As long as you look at it from a civilized society perspective, you won't understand their motivation. A spider's cage is it's territory, and some species may consider the area around it theirs too. Some want a buffer zone, especially if they live with relentless predators. Again, they decide what is theirs, not humans.

Okay you are not grasping the context at the moment, aggression is a word I used correctly and shown above how it is applied. The tarantula is aggressive which is proven in the definition of the word,I don't care who says what or is the dictionary being applied as one feels ? The simple easy to understand meaning of the applied word is correct, no matter how you'd like to see it.

If it bothers you so much,I suggest rewrite the English dictionary since that is the only way to change the word or words which does not agree with you. You are applying your views as you see fit,I poke a hole you try and block and patch it. Let us not quarrel over a point above,stick to that answer that and we can have a debate since now you are grasping and using analogies to make a point yet the word exists under that meaning and is applied in humans and animals.

Again look at the word and its meaning,applied in different facets and not being used incorrectly. Seems people don't like certain words,no matter how disliked it is fact and is true. Then saying now if one passes a certain area,which was previously just the enclosure now is more that it is defensive doesn't make any sense. Let's again use the word as it was meant to be,and reply accordingly or this debate is redundant and going off path.

Where certain specimens go out of their way to do you harm,no matter in or outside their comfort zone where a perfect example is of what happened on a YouTube video running out of the enclosure while attacking multiple times and continuing over a bed and off of the bed let me guess the whole room is the tarantulas ? Haha

I have added the points made from above yet again,since nothing was answered accordingly. I have added a highlight in the yet again pasted content,should be easy to differentiate from the original. Since aggression is a multi faceted word,I will stick with certain ones being aggressive.

HIGHLIGHTS
- including anti-predator aggression(human being seen as the predator like stated not by me)
- resident-intruder aggression(entering the enclosure)
- defensive aggression (fear-induced)
- It may occur either in retaliation or without provocation
- IT IS A VIRTUALLY UNIVERSAL BEHAVIOUR AMONG ANIMALS

Aggression is overt, often harmful, social interaction with the intention of inflicting damage or other unpleasantness upon another individual. It is a virtually universal behavior among animals. It may occur either in retaliation or without provocation. In humans, frustration due to blocked goals can cause aggression.

aggression is a response by an individual that delivers something unpleasant to another person. Some definitions include that the individual must intend to harm another person

Aggression can take a variety of forms which may be expressed physically or communicated verbally or non-verbally: including anti-predator aggression, defensive aggression (fear-induced), predatory aggression, dominance aggression, inter-male aggression, resident-intruder aggression, maternal aggression, species-specific aggression, sex-related aggression, territorial aggression, isolation-induced aggression, irritable aggression, and brain-stimulation-induced aggression (hypothalamus).

 

[Ceratogyrus]

You can't apply the laws of civilized society to animals. Advancing or retreating is a human legal distinction. Their territory also encompasses their hunting ground, not just their retreat or lair. While we consider it aggression if someone hits us if we walk on their lawn, it's totally different in the animal world. When you walk on an animal's territory, innocent and oblivious as you may be, by your presence you are issuing a challenge to the animal that considers that territory to be theirs.

If you lived in West Africa and had a tall fruit tree in your yard with a Stromatopelma in it, it's not going to run down and bite you when you walk by that tree. But if you climb the tree to pick fruit, you are in the spider's territory, you've inadvertently challenged it. It may engage you to get you to leave. In a human court of law, the spider is the aggressor. In nature, you are. They decide when they feel their life is threatened, and whether their territory has been invaded, not you. People that get near a mother grizzly bear and are attacked; we consider that to be an aggressive bear. To the bear, it's defending it's cubs and you were a perceived threat. You confronted it, and it responded. Human law and legal fine print is irrelevant in nature. As long as you look at it from a civilized society perspective, you won't understand their motivation. A spider's cage is it's territory, and some species may consider the area around it theirs too. Some want a buffer zone, especially if they live with relentless predators. Again, they decide what is theirs, not humans.

No point in arguing this point, he will never see anyone else's point of view.
I agree with you and always have had the point that spiders are not aggressive, but some people just can't let some things go (Martin:It was fun indeed,and I can actually laugh at those now who state a T isn't aggressive.). I laugh at people that think that an animal that is 1000 times smaller than a human would have any reason to show aggression. If we were not bugging the spider by moving it or opening its enclosure they would not randomly walk around acting aggressively towards us.
Poec54, trust me on this one. Arguing with Martin is like trying to reason with a murinus on an eggcase.