Please act now to save the hobby!

[Padraig Sea]

Not sure if this has been brought up here, but I hope people are aware:

Buried in a law that just passed in the House of Representatives, the America COMPETES Act, which totals almost 3,000 pages - is a section that hands MASSIVE authority to USFWS to effectively ban any species of animal they see fit. It literally means that if they decide your tarantula, scorpion or centipede could survive in Florida, it is an injurious species and cannot be transported across ANY state line for ANY reason. Taking your sick pet to a vet just over a state border would become a FEDERAL CRIME.

It would also effectively end all legal imports as we know them. Instead of USFWS justifying why something should not be imported, they would create a “white list” of species that *can* be imported, and it would be up to us to justify why any of the 1,000+ known species of tarantula should be on that list.

Make no mistake: this has nothing to do with invasive species or conservation. USFWS will happily let hundreds of animals die in a hot warehouse over a spelling error, invent their own rules to harass legal importers and want nothing more than to restrict the hobby until it suffocated and dies. Meanwhile, brown boxers will continue doing what they do, and illegal shipping will become the only way to get the animals you want.

Does anyone think brown boxers or illegal sellers care about invasive species? Does USFWS have the capacity to screen car parts for smuggled livestock?

The law, as written, has passed the house, and will now go to the Senate. If it passes the Senate, the president will sign it, it will become law, and you can begin counting the days before USFWS announces that all non-native tarantulas (and inverts) are injurious.

This is not a political post. I don’t care what party you’re in or what other causes you support. If you’re reading this, it’s probably because you love our hobby and LOVE the animals we keep. With that in mind, PLEASE:

Another look at this very serious issue. Don’t ignore now and whine later - TAKE ACTION!

Tarantulas Bazaar made this great and concise guide on how:

Find your Representative: https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative

Find your Senators (contact BOTH): https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm

1. Call ;
2. Email ;
3. Fax letters to your Representatives and Senators

Feel free to politely voice your displeasure with this law, or use this template Tarantula Bazaar created a Template Letter for you to download on Google Docs.

NO to Lacey Act template letter

[Today’s Date] Subject line: NO to Lacey Act Amendments in America COMPETES Act Dear Senator [Name], I implore you to remove the Lacey Act amendments found in the America COMPETES Act (Section 71102 on pages 1661-1665) as your constituent, dedicated advocate for ecological conservation, and pe...

docs.google.com

 

[DustyD]

@Padraig Sea

You stated:
"Make no mistake: this has nothing to do with invasive species or conservation."

You are clearly wrong and hyping the matter.

It has everything to do with invasive species!
Almost identical wording was discussed in a Senate committee last year, proposed by a Democrat and Sen. Marco Rubio, a Republican from Florida where invasive species have become a huge problem.

It is fine to oppose legislation, but please do it without fanning the mob mentality. It is comments like yours that lead to wild stories that people are already dumping or considering dumping their animals because of this bill that is not even a law yet.

You said: " It literally means that if they decide your tarantula, scorpion or centipede could survive in Florida, it is an injurious species and cannot be transported across ANY state line for ANY reason."

My response: Some states, maybe many, already have restrictions in place on what exotic animals you can own. So some of that is already in place.

I don't know if this bill is the right approach or not. What I do know is that invasive species are already wreaking havoc with some of our ecosystems. And without action, it will only get worse.

Stirring up emotions and creating that mob mentality, is not the solution.

 

[Oursapoil]

Good morning gents,
I believe there are valid points on both side that would deserve further discussions. It doesn’t feel like a yes or no questions as it would definitely affect some states more than others regardless of which direction the law ends up going.
Example in point I am living close to two Petco, separated by just a couple of miles. One can sell Ts, the other can’t. In addition to regulations at a federal and states level, there are also regulations at The city level (NYC in this case).
Seeing valid points on both sides, it is fair to say that people will side with what affects them the most. Unfortunately these types of laws are often created without sufficient inputs from the people they directly affect. I encourage everyone to reach out and have an open conversation on how the law could be adjusted or changed to maximize its benefits to both sides. Hoping the direct impact on the hobby would be limited while protecting the wildlife, ecosystems and hobby in the longer run.
Nothing is stopping anyone from reaching out to our representative and voicing concerns, at the worst it’ll show them that people are paying attention and you might as well also be the first person they’ll hear from that is passionate about the hobby. Time to make a good impression either way
Cheers.

 

[arachbiodude]

Some tarantulas can survive in Florida. I forget the one. I posted video from Tarantula collective on this.

 

[arachbiodude]

 

[Arachnoclown]

Some tarantulas can survive in Florida. I forget the one. I posted video from Tarantula collective on this.

I have well over 100 tarantulas living in my room in Oregon that's living conditions are cooler then Florida's average temperatures. I'd say all 100 plus of my spiders could survive in Florida

 

[DustyD]

@Oursapoil Well said. You expressed my opinion better than I did.

There needs to be something in place that protects the individual interests while protecting the environment.

If this bill does not pass, we are still stuck with the issue of invasive species. If it passes, it may hurt some people, maybe not.
It sounds like there is provisions for public input

 

[arachbiodude]

Some species are more invasive than others. I see the snake head problem and the chameleon and pythons. Now Plecostomus catfish are sucking on manatees cleaning algae. Tournaments around me to kill Lionfish.

 

[arachbiodude]

When I was a kid, could buy a squirrel monkey for $39.95 from the back of a comic book. Many exotic species cannot invade because it is too damn cold. How could Giant Clam invade?

 

[DustyD]

When I was a kid, could buy a squirrel monkey for $39.95 from the back of a comic book. Many exotic species cannot invade because it is too damn cold. How could Giant Clam invade?

Hmm but doesn't a clam have a foot and also move by jet water propulsion, at least the smaller ones do I believe. There may be more biological and environmental reasons for such restrictions.

I know a few years ago, Sweden restricted the importing of yummy Maine lobster as they felt the lobsters were getting out and were threatening local species.

 

[Padraig Sea]

@Padraig Sea

You stated:
"Make no mistake: this has nothing to do with invasive species or conservation."

You are clearly wrong and hyping the matter.

It has everything to do with invasive species!
Almost identical wording was discussed in a Senate committee last year, proposed by a Democrat and Sen. Marco Rubio, a Republican from Florida where invasive species have become a huge problem.

It is fine to oppose legislation, but please do it without fanning the mob mentality. It is comments like yours that lead to wild stories that people are already dumping or considering dumping their animals because of this bill that is not even a law yet.

You said: " It literally means that if they decide your tarantula, scorpion or centipede could survive in Florida, it is an injurious species and cannot be transported across ANY state line for ANY reason."

My response: Some states, maybe many, already have restrictions in place on what exotic animals you can own. So some of that is already in place.

I don't know if this bill is the right approach or not. What I do know is that invasive species are already wreaking havoc with some of our ecosystems. And without action, it will only get worse.

Stirring up emotions and creating that mob mentality, is not the solution.

I’m not sure what “reach out to your legislators” has to do with a mob mentality, but feel free to interpret it how ever you like.

And no, it’s pretty clearly not about invasive species when the areas potentially impacted represent small regions of 3 states. Furthermore, the “white list” is nothing more than a blank check for USFWS to demand we price species are *not* invasive.

Lastly - the most detrimental invasive species - cats, dogs and farm livestock - are specifically excluded from the bill. It’s spectacular to suggest a bill that would demolish the hobby but give a free pass to animals that are actually destroying ecosystems is a good faith approach to conservation.

Again, USFWS does not want the hobby to exist. Today they are making up their own rules with zero accountability. This amendment would end the hobby as we know it. That isn’t hysteria, that is the truth.

 

[Padraig Sea]

*prove, not price.

 

[Padraig Sea]

@Oursapoil Well said. You expressed my opinion better than I did.

There needs to be something in place that protects the individual interests while protecting the environment.

If this bill does not pass, we are still stuck with the issue of invasive species. If it passes, it may hurt some people, maybe not.
It sounds like there is provisions for public input

There are no provisions for public input. It amends Lacey to grant USFWS to declare any species it wants injurious overnight. It eliminates the public commenting period.

The only “input” it grants is your right to request that animals be added to the white list for importation. If they are not on the list, they can be denied entry or seized.

Today USFWS is denying entry to animals from over a dozen countries on the basis that they were never exported legally. In many cases these are species that have already been imported to the US in the tens of thousands, and where there is ample evidence that founder stock was exported legally. The “recourse” is an administrative process that takes years to resolve or a lawsuit that would cost hundreds of thousands to litigate. Again, this is the situation now. If the law passes, it will get much, much worse, and while I can’t speak for every importer, I would simply throw in the towel if it passed.

I strong suggest people actually read USARKs analysis of this awful legislation instead of shrugging and assuming it won’t be a big deal.

 

[Padraig Sea]

Some tarantulas can survive in Florida. I forget the one. I posted video from Tarantula collective on this.

Florida is almost exclusively the cause of concern. The southernmost point of Texas and perhaps California have also been called into question.

These are local issues, and USFWS and USDA already have tools to address more broadly invasive species.

 

[Padraig Sea]

Good morning gents,
I believe there are valid points on both side that would deserve further discussions. It doesn’t feel like a yes or no questions as it would definitely affect some states more than others regardless of which direction the law ends up going.
Example in point I am living close to two Petco, separated by just a couple of miles. One can sell Ts, the other can’t. In addition to regulations at a federal and states level, there are also regulations at The city level (NYC in this case).
Seeing valid points on both sides, it is fair to say that people will side with what affects them the most. Unfortunately these types of laws are often created without sufficient inputs from the people they directly affect. I encourage everyone to reach out and have an open conversation on how the law could be adjusted or changed to maximize its benefits to both sides. Hoping the direct impact on the hobby would be limited while protecting the wildlife, ecosystems and hobby in the longer run.
Nothing is stopping anyone from reaching out to our representative and voicing concerns, at the worst it’ll show them that people are paying attention and you might as well also be the first person they’ll hear from that is passionate about the hobby. Time to make a good impression either way
Cheers.

Just to be clear, this is federal legislation to amend the Lacey Act. It would effect every state. It would mean if your spider is placed on the injurious species list, you cannot bring it across any state border for any reason. It’s not limited to commerce. Bringing a pet to the vet or donating it to a zoo would become a federal crime or civil infraction if it involves leaving your home state.

 

[Padraig Sea]

Here is the actual text if anyone is interested in reading it, by the way.

 

[DustyD]

More fear mongering from Padraig Sea who has previously stated that the amendment has nothing to do with conservation and that the federal government wants to prohibit all exotic pets.
I am not saying this is good or bad legislation.

There are no provisions for public input. It amends Lacey to grant USFWS to declare any species it wants injurious overnight. It eliminates the public commenting period.
The only “input” it grants is your right to request that animals be added to the white list for importation. If they are not on the list, they can be denied entry or seized.
[

Based on what you provided and contrary to what you state, there are provisions for input and stipulations that species that have been previously imported in the previous year in more than minimal numbers would not be prohibited, unless they posed a danger.
The provisions of the amendment would prohibit species UNLESS:

"(A) during the 1-year period preceding the date of enactment of the America COMPETES Act of 2022, the species was, in more than minimal quantities‘‘(i) imported into the United States; or ‘‘(ii) transported between the States, any territory of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States; or

(And here is the public input provision)
‘‘(B) the Secretary of the Interior determines, after an opportunity for public comment, that the species does not pose a significant risk of invasiveness to the United States and publishes a notice in the Federal Register of the determination."


[/QUOTE]
Today USFWS is denying entry to animals from over a dozen countries on the basis that they were never exported legally. In many cases these are species that have already been imported to the US in the tens of thousands, and where there is ample evidence that founder stock was exported legally.[/QUOTE]


Which species? Chile is banning exports of some of it's tarantulas which thereby requires the US FWS to block their entry too. And I would think that tens of thousands of animals would qualify as more than minimal.

 

[Padraig Sea]

More fear mongering from Padraig Sea who has previously stated that the amendment has nothing to do with conservation and that the federal government wants to prohibit all exotic pets.
I am not saying this is good or bad legislation.



Based on what you provided and contrary to what you state, there are provisions for input and stipulations that species that have been previously imported in the previous year in more than minimal numbers would not be prohibited, unless they posed a danger.
The provisions of the amendment would prohibit species UNLESS:

"(A) during the 1-year period preceding the date of enactment of the America COMPETES Act of 2022, the species was, in more than minimal quantities‘‘(i) imported into the United States; or ‘‘(ii) transported between the States, any territory of the United States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or any possession of the United States; or

(And here is the public input provision)
‘‘(B) the Secretary of the Interior determines, after an opportunity for public comment, that the species does not pose a significant risk of invasiveness to the United States and publishes a notice in the Federal Register of the determination."

No idea why you think this is “fear mongering” but if you’re intent on ignoring reality, have at it. Well done capping it with “I’m not saying this is good or bad legislation” as if you aren’t simply taking a contrarian view of anything critical of it.

The SoI determines what “minimal numbers” are; that’s literally in the document you just scanned to cherry pick items that you feel supports your point of view. That’s also not contrary to anything I’ve stated; this is a qualifier to allow entry, not a rule USFWS has to follow.

Likewise, the public input provision is to approve the species for entry. Again, this is you selectively interpreting snippets of the text without actually reading it. Under current law there is a public commenting period prior to the addition of a species to, say, ESA, or treatment as an injurious species.

Under this law the opposite would happen. To establish a species as eligible for import, a public comment period would take place before it could be legally imported.

That last paragraph exposes how utterly ignorant of the situation you are. You opened this by suggesting I’m misleading people regarding a law that hasn’t even passed yet, but here you are confusing current situations with this pending legislation.

“Founder stock” is breeding stock; given that Chilean tarantulas have indisputably been exported legally, USFWS’ current application and enforcement of Lacey would not apply. Their claim is that any species that they claim was never exported legally cannot enter the United States, even if it’s captive bred and coming from Europe. It started with Brazil; it now includes many others and every species listed as endemic to those countries.

Do you actually keep exotic animals? It’s stunning that someone who does would blindly defend this awful legislation and attack people trying to fight it.