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New True Spiders

Denny Dee

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Just picked up four new true spiders:

Latrodectus Hesperus - Western Black Widow (replacement for my lost female :()
Olios giganeus - Golden Huntsmen (male)
(2) Araneus illaudatus - Madera Canyon Orb Weavers

My first orb weavers so I am excited to learn more about these magnificent web spinners.
 

Denny Dee

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Enjoy them. I haven't really kept tries yet, aside from the occasional jumping spider.
I actually have more "spiders" than T's. I really like the diversity in their habits and appearances. And, they take a little less room than the T's (at least the T's that I like). I would suggest a large wolf spider as a first for T owners. You will not be disappointed!
 

MatthewM1

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Wolfs are pretty awesome. Like terrestrial T's on crack. High strung and fast, extra poor climbers tho so it makes the speed easier to deal with. Been itching to get a widow myself.
 

MatthewM1

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That's too bad, OW's are alot of fun to keep. I love the way my S. calceatum "decorate" their enclosures. And Poecilotheria are just stunning. I made the mistake of showing the gf a video about Sicarius sp. tho and im not allowed any of them now >.< should have shown the videos after picking some up lol
 

Denny Dee

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Wolfs are pretty awesome. Like terrestrial T's on crack. High strung and fast, extra poor climbers tho so it makes the speed easier to deal with. Been itching to get a widow myself.
I have 4 widows in my collection: Latrodectus Hesperus, geometricus, bishop, and mactans. They are awesome spiders and extremely easy to keep. It is a pain to remove the egg sacs as once they start, it can become a weekly exercise. Slow movers which make them very non-threatening if you use caution at all times and ensure you have an escape proof enclosure. Mine are double locked.
 

Denny Dee

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I promised my wife nothing with medically significant venom so widows and old worlders are out for me.
Old worlders pose no threat to people. Venom toxicity is more urban legend than based on fact. They do tend to bite more readily as that is their primary defense mechanism so best not to handle them. Like any bite or sting, allergic reactions and infections are always a risk but if treated, no one is going to die from a T bite. I would suggest the same approach with new worlders. Treat any bite as SERIOUS :eek:. New world species are actually more dangerous IMHO. Hair flickers are much more likely to get you than a bite.

No argument with the wife on the widows. Not for everyone and there are certainly things not worth arguing about as she is already supporting your T collection and don't want to mess that up :).
 

HungryGhost

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Old worlders pose no threat to people. Venom toxicity is more urban legend than based on fact. They do tend to bite more readily as that is their primary defense mechanism so best not to handle them. Like any bite or sting, allergic reactions and infections are always a risk but if treated, no one is going to die from a T bite. I would suggest the same approach with new worlders. Treat any bite as SERIOUS :eek:. New world species are actually more dangerous IMHO. Hair flickers are much more likely to get you than a bite.

No argument with the wife on the widows. Not for everyone and there are certainly things not worth arguing about as she is already supporting your T collection and don't want to mess that up :).
There's a lot to be said for choosing your battles.:rolleyes:
 

Denny Dee

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Good stuff! Thanks for sharing. However, regarding the symptoms of bite victims, it appears to me that these examples end up being speculative and always end up in a point/counter point debate on the authenticity of the evidence. In other words, some people can be bitten and not experience any of the symptoms that others have experienced. This boils down to many complex variables such as general health of the victim, the amount of venom injected into the wound, and other factors. So, I will stick with my earlier argument that the urban legend of deadly T's is just that.
 

MatthewM1

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I don't think anyone is trying to argue that OW's are deadly just that their venom isn't something to take lightly.
 

Martin Oosthuysen

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If you look at the piece,that points to the fact that tarantula venom does not contain the larger proteins that cause allergic reactions in humans(theirs contain peptides). There was an interesting view given, that secondary infection due to the epidermis being pierced causes I'll health etc. That means the venom is not the culprit,but the fangs which cause the epidermis to be broken then outside factors say infection of some external form say virus.
 
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Denny Dee

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If you look at the piece,that points to the fact that tarantula venom does not contain the larger proteins that cause allergic reactions in humans(theirs contain peptides). There was an interesting view given, that secondary infection due to the epidermis being pierced causes I'll health etc. That means the venom is not the culprit,but the fangs which cause the epidermis to be broken then outside factors say infection of some external form say virus.
Good points. Many truly deadly spiders like widows and recluses do not have the fangs of larger spiders and that is why many people do not receive deadly amounts of toxins while others do. Baby skin is much softer and easier for the fangs to invade. I have a book specifically covering the history of widows and their venom. It states that most of the adults killed were men. And the largest percentage of them were bitten on their (RADIO EDIT) while sitting in the outhouse :eek:. Widows are attracted to outhouses due to the darkness and the humidity. Back before plumbing was available in most homes, this is why the number of kills was high. Brown recluses cannot even bit through light clothing. Good news is that there are anti-venoms for virtually all the species today.

BTW, it would be really interesting to find a list of venom for all the species (usually measured scientifically using LD50). Have not been able to find a comprehensive listing. Any such list would be greatly appreciated.
 

MatthewM1

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The way I've had it explained the LD50' are next to useless when talking about effects of venom on humans. Iirc G. rosea scored higher on those tests that any Poecilotheria. But all that means is G. rosea venom kills a small rodent faster.
 

Denny Dee

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I don't think anyone is trying to argue that OW's are deadly just that their venom isn't something to take lightly.
The term medically significant venom can lead one to believe that Tarantulas may be deadly. To date, there are no know deaths anywhere in the world due to a tarantula bite so just want to make sure that the newbies out there do not go running from old world species (I personally prefer them - see hair kicking above). And, although new world species generally have a lower toxicity rating, I still would recommend seeking medical attention on any T bite (especially the larger speices). Infection and allergies are the real risk if untreated.
 

Denny Dee

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The way I've had it explained the LD50' are next to useless when talking about effects of venom on humans. Iirc G. rosea scored higher on those tests that any Poecilotheria. But all that means is G. rosea venom kills a small rodent faster.
Still would find it interesting. And until we start testing humans, it is the best we have :p.
 

Denny Dee

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Anyone out there actually been bit by a Pokie? There is not a lot of history there. Would like to hear from actual bite victims to hear how bad it was. I have heard they are truly nasty.
 
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