Lacey Act regarding Brazilian species

[Casey K.]

So....i just found some new information (not sure how accurate so i'd post here to find out). I inquired about sales of Brazilian tarantula species. I was aware that it's illegal to import them but had inquired about out of state sales and in state sales on the Brazilian tarantula species. This was the response to my email I received a few days after inquiring:



"Hi Casey, sorry I missed your email. As Brazilian species are part of the Lacey Act it states that sales of them period are illegal (Import, across state lines, within state). We've received very conflicting information from USFWS and are awaiting an announcement from them regarding whether they are going to enforce this on species that are already within the states. As soon as we have more information we will post it everywhere.
I cannot give you advice as to whether to sell them or not as many vendors still are. The board members of the TKC have discontinued sales of Brazilian species from our own businesses with the thought that "its not a problem until it is". I apologize that I don't have any concrete information but I hope this helps.
Thank you,
Amy
TKC
Founding board member, Treasurer"




According to TKC, since Brazilian species are part of the Lacey Act, sales of them are illegal.....whether it be in state sales, out of state sales (shipping across state lines) or importing/exporting.

The reason why I bring this up is because I have L. parahybana slings. I have noticed other vendors selling Brazilian species - some appearing to sell them abroad (shipping across state lines) and some indicate that they only sell the species within their state.

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated. I am wanting to educate myself so this is PART of my research.....and what better place to start than here on the forum?

 

[Jess S]

So....i just found some new information (not sure how accurate so i'd post here to find out). I inquired about sales of Brazilian tarantula species. I was aware that it's illegal to import them but had inquired about out of state sales and in state sales on the Brazilian tarantula species. This was the response to my email I received a few days after inquiring:



"Hi Casey, sorry I missed your email. As Brazilian species are part of the Lacey Act it states that sales of them period are illegal (Import, across state lines, within state). We've received very conflicting information from USFWS and are awaiting an announcement from them regarding whether they are going to enforce this on species that are already within the states. As soon as we have more information we will post it everywhere.
I cannot give you advice as to whether to sell them or not as many vendors still are. The board members of the TKC have discontinued sales of Brazilian species from our own businesses with the thought that "its not a problem until it is". I apologize that I don't have any concrete information but I hope this helps.
Thank you,
Amy
TKC
Founding board member, Treasurer"




According to TKC, since Brazilian species are are part of the Lacey Act, sales of them are illegal.....whether it be in state sales, out of state sales (shipping across state lines) or importing/exporting.

The reason why I bring this up is because I have L. parahybana slings. I have noticed other vendors selling Brazilian species - some appearing to sell them abroad (shipping across state lines) and some indicate that they only sell the species within their state.

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated. I am wanting to educate myself so this is PART of my research.....and what better place to start than here on the forum?

I don't know a lot about the Lacey Act, only that it seems to be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
This is crazy and really bad for the hobby in the US if true. Looks like if the TKC still can't get clarification on whether the government have an appetite to enforce it, what hope is there for the average dealer to know what to do.
My commiserations. I really hope the UK doesn't do something similar. It's only going to create a black market, because people will still want to collect them privately, which is worse for the species in the long run.

 

[nedaK]

I’m just curious why they would make it illegal to ship them if they are already in the states? To me that just sounds stupid because they aren’t effecting the wild populations. Captive bred specimens shipped to other states shouldn’t be under fire.

 

[Jess S]

I’m just curious why they would make it illegal to ship them if they are already in the states? To me that just sounds stupid because they aren’t effecting the wild populations. Captive bred specimens shipped to other states shouldn’t be under fire.

It's mental isn't it. It's the same with Poecilotheria (doubt I spelt that right) in that you can't ship across state lines unless you've met one or two very narrow exceptions, a breeding loan, I think, being one.

Sounds like the law is loads stricter for Brazilian species.

 

[Casey K.]

I don't know a lot about the Lacey Act, only that it seems to be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
This is crazy and really bad for the hobby in the US if true. Looks like if the TKC still can't get clarification on whether the government have an appetite to enforce it, what hope is there for the average dealer to know what to do.
My commiserations. I really hope the UK doesn't do something similar. It's only going to create a black market, because people will still want to collect them privately, which is worse for the species in the long run.

I agree with you. Perhaps they'll at least allow us to continue breeding in captivity and sell them within the US as long as we don't import them. If this is the case and we aren't allowed to sell them at all, that makes it worse than the Sri Lanka Poecilotheria species because at least we can still do in-state sales with them.

 

[Rs50matt]

I think initially this was blown well out of proportion, the laws regarding brazilian species weren't clear so no one really knew.

It was blown well out of proportion by some people scaremongering saying government officials were coming to your houses to take your Brazilian Ts away.

As they said in the email you recieved there has been conflicting information which to me says no one really knows. Vendors choosing not to sell are only covering themselves just incase they do decide that it is illegal to trade them.

 

[Casey K.]

I’m just curious why they would make it illegal to ship them if they are already in the states? To me that just sounds stupid because they aren’t effecting the wild populations. Captive bred specimens shipped to other states shouldn’t be under fire.

They have done the same with Sri Lanka Poecilotheria species. You can sell them but only within your state. You can't ship them to another state. I believe traveling out of state to do sales is pretty much the same thing. They can't cross your state line....now, if you move out of state and take your animals with you that may be different but you may have to get permission or notify USFW prior to if you own Sri Lanka species.

 

[Casey K.]

It's mental isn't it. It's the same with Poecilotheria (doubt I spelt that right) in that you can't ship across state lines unless you've met one or two very narrow exceptions, a breeding loan, I think, being one.

Sounds like the law is loads stricter for Brazilian species.

I believe it is as far as "selling" them go. I'm unsure about transporting them.....

 

[Casey K.]

I think initially this was blown well out of proportion, the laws regarding brazilian species weren't clear so no one really knew.

It was blown well out of proportion by some people scaremongering saying government officials were coming to your houses to take your Brazilian Ts away.

As they said in the email you recieved there has been conflicting information which to me says no one really knows. Vendors choosing not to sell are only covering themselves just incase they do decide that it is illegal to trade them.

I think this may be the case but I haven't heard anything from anyone else (other vendors, etc.) Perhaps contacting USFW themselves to get clarification of this matter would benefit everyone.

 

[MassExodus]

"Brazillian sp." is rather a broad term, isn't it? Who's to say they didn't come from a neighboring country? Do people really believe that they're only in Brazil? Can they prove it? Can some random fish and game moron ID one accurately? Screw the lacy act. Carry on with your biz, they won't do ****, I can almost garauntee it.

 

[Casey K.]

"Brazillian sp." is rather a broad term, isn't it? Who's to say they didn't come from a neighboring country? Do people really believe that they're only in Brazil? Can they prove it? Can some random fish and game moron ID one accurately? Screw the lacy act. Carry on with your biz, they won't do ****, I can almost garauntee it.

Lol....you know some species that are native to one country end up in another just by wandering into it. I believe they (USFW) are narrowing it down to Brazilian species in general just to be on the safe side...regardless of "how" they ended up "wherever"......

 

[Jess S]

I agree with you. Perhaps they'll at least allow us to continue breeding in captivity and sell them within the US as long as we don't import them. If this is the case and we aren't allowed to sell them at all, that makes it worse than the Sri Lanka Poecilotheria species because at least we can still do in-state sales with them.

Let's hope they will allow captive breeding. But I bet that species like LPs will end up not being bred because who will be able to sell that many slings if they can only sell them in state? I hope I'm wrong on that though.

 

[Metalman2004]

We can only wait and see what happens. Shortly after all this happened I spoke with someone at the TKC and got the same info. I read the regulations and its tough to know what to do. I emailed the USFW and got the same ambiguous “we haven’t decided what to do” wording.

There is one distinction to make though. There are species native only to Brazil and then there are species native to Brazil AND other countries. Even if they decide to enforce the law regarding Brazil, not much they can do if the species is also available from other countries.

 

[Casey K.]

Let's hope they will allow captive breeding. But I bet that species like LPs will end up not being bred because who will be able to sell that many slings if they can only sell them in state? I hope I'm wrong on that though.

I thought about that, too. Certain states would be FLOODED with that species from breeders, lol.

 

[Casey K.]

We can only wait and see what happens. Shortly after all this happened I spoke with someone at the TKC and got the same info. I read the regulations and its tough to know what to do. I emailed the USFW and got the same ambiguous “we haven’t decided what to do” wording.

There is one distinction to make though. There are species native only to Brazil and then there are species native to Brazil AND other countries. Even if they decide to enforce the law regarding Brazil, not much they can do if the species is also available from other countries.

That's good! I thought about that, as well. Same species but different localities. I'm certain that wouldn't hold up....if that were the case, they may as well put the red flag on any species in South America.

 

[MassExodus]

That's good! I thought about that, as well. Same species but different localities. I'm certain that wouldn't hold up....if that were the case, they may as well put the red flag on any species in South America.

Exactly.

 

[wdulaney]

Hi,

Is there any place I can get more info on this?

When I tried looking up the act I could not find Brazil mentioned anywhere.

 

[Casey K.]

Hi,

Is there any place I can get more info on this?

When I tried looking up the act I could not find Brazil mentioned anywhere.

This is where I acquired the most up to date information regarding them but USFW may have updated their information regarding this.


https://www.thetkc.org/the-tarantul...interstate-sale-of-brazilian-endemic-spiders/

 

[wdulaney]

Did you know about this before today? I didn't know this was even a thing lol

 

[PanzoN88]

This is where I acquired the most up to date information regarding them but USFW may have updated their information regarding this.


https://www.thetkc.org/the-tarantul...interstate-sale-of-brazilian-endemic-spiders/

Their site is up?

Watching this thread closely, as this topic is the reason I am waiting to get an L. klugi and G. iheringi.