I think I have a major problem, possible fatality

[Whitelightning777]

Before going to work last night, I noticed that my M balfouri's enclosure had lots of webbing against the front side wall. It didn't look quite right. I noticed that it was lots of mold and decided to rehouse her into the larger enclosure, previously used for my scorpions, scorplings and my L Klugi successfully.

I rushed home after work and began the rehouse immediately. I only stopped to remove my uniform.

Because she digs more then any of my others, I made one change that I had previously planned. I added about 25 to 30 percent of repti-sand to my usual Eco Earth substrate.

I set up a catch cup with a lid I tried to modify for my spare terrestrial enclosure by adding larger vent holes at each corner. I created a new catch cup with a soldering iron with multiple holes. I put some string through 2 of the holes in the cup and another taped to the lid. I was anticipating teleporting, the usual blur of speed as normal.

The first thing I did was to wash everything again, set it up, begin the temperature set up etc etc. While rehousing I was doing the test.

I decided to try the flooding technique because I could use a syringe to inject water while not permitting any chance of escape. I removed the screen and placed the catch cup over the opening. I had a clear plastic welding shield that I previously used to block off the screen in the same enclosure.

Of course, the tarantula exited the burrow, turned right back around and went back inside. I knew the flood technique could cause this problem. As I continued to add water, it became obvious that the tarantula wouldn't leave. While waiting, I was walking in and out of the bathroom monitoring the temperature tests doing it at the same time.

Eventually I decided to carefully dig the tarantula our, which took over a half hour using a plastic spoon and a paint brush and tongs.

Eventually a water logged tarantula popped up and was acting very fatigued and sluggish. I was able to scoop her up and got the plastic shield in place. I allowed the excess water to drain and carefully put the lid on firmly.

The tarantula was moving around slowly under its own power walking in circles. Previously I had threaded string through the vent holes so I could close the top of the new enclosure 1/16th of an inch. I loosened the lid so it wasn't off but wasn't attached. I carefully slowly pulled the strings apart and things went smoothly. I noticed that the tarantula was laying on its side and then she slowly climbed up the floor and positioned herself with the abdomen facing down vertically.

The slowness struck me as odd. She was far less animated then my Lasiodora when I rehoused her but figured that it was probably due to being soaked.

I put the cage in its final location and hooked up everything but DIDN'T turn on the heat system. It passed the test, actually slightly colder but since I was going to get the catch cup out later, I didn't turn it on. I didn't want to encourage speed and figured I'd just wait for a web, getting settled in etc.

About 30 minutes ago, I noticed she moved but looked almost upside down. I took everything back into the bathroom and removed the catch cup and lid.

At this time I noticed that she was totally unresponsive. I carefully moved her by the water dish and turned her over on the back.

She is still in the same position.

Of course, when water evaporates, it tends to cool stuff off.

My question is should I just wait for her to wake up or try adding heat to revive her? I feel very pessimistic about this.

Of course, I cleaned everything first and basically tried to replicate what I did before, except for flooding. I've used that syringe to give them water before but noticed that it annoys all my other spiders and switched to a dropper.

At what point should I conclude that a fatality had occurred?

There is one other detail. I can't see the spinnerets at the back of the abdomen. I don't want to get to close and get bitten!!

I've never seen her move that slowly before.

I want to get to the bottom of this. Ego doesn't matter.

 

[Whitelightning777]

I just thought of something!!

If that mold was poisonous, the moisture might've mixed it up and made contact with the spider.

Has this ever happened before?

The mold appeared suddenly and didn't smell that great after I was cleaning up.

She was left in the catch cup for a while when I was waiting for the cage to cool back down.

 

[Enn49]

I know we say that Ts don't drown in water bowls but a T trapped in a completely flooded burrow won't stand much chance. I have never needed to flood one out preferring to gently remove sub until I can catch the T in a catch cup. I always empty sub into a Cricket tub or 3L Braplast tub inside a 9L RUB meaning I have 2 lines of defence. I've not had one escape the 9L yet, not even an adult.

 

[Whitelightning777]

That's the weird thing. It was moving, albeit slowly, after being transferred even went vertical in the catch cup.

Can drowning be a delayed consequence?

I already very gently used a soft paintbrush to clean off the book lungs when ipositioned her.

Currently, I positioned her in her back near the water dish. I've administered a few drops of slightly warmed water to no apparent effect. Basically, the same as the molting position. She was still soaking wet when transferred.

I have no idea how to dry a tarantula. That's probably my screw up.

Do you think some warmth will help? It's about 71 degrees in the T room, sadly enough the coldest one in the condo.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Honestly, does anyone think I should take off of work tonight to help the tarantula? If so, what's next?

 

[Enn49]

Why have you put her on her back? It would have been better to dry her off a bit, just a dry piece of kitchen towel in a dry catch cup for a few minutes would have helped. For now I'd flip her the right way up, keep her warm and leave her in peace.

 

[Whitelightning777]

I thought there was a slim chance of very very early molting plus to make sure the lungs were clear of sludge and debris.

I'm flipping her over now.

Update: I did that, no signs of life. I'll wait 24 hours but I think it's too late.

 

[Metalman2004]

Definitely wait at least 24 hrs if not longer and just let her be. Some people wait for them to start smelling or molding before getting rid of them just in case.

I’ve never heard of mold showing up so quickly and smelling bad. Not totally sure without looking at your enclosure but it sounds like not enough ventilation for the amount of dampness and heat in the enclosure. Just a guess, I really don’t know. Tarantulas encounter mold in the wild all the time, so unless it was just rampant I doubt that was it.

Could have been drowning but theres really no way to tell. I only attempted the flooding method twice. Both times it didn’t work and ended up being more of a pain than anything, though it didn’t end up in a dead spider.

Also could have just been a combination of wverything all at once.

I don’t think there is anything else you can do at this point. Good luck

 

[WolfSpider]

I’m so sorry @Whitelightning777. Dunno what the mold was, but I doubt you killed your spider. Spiders burrows in the wild get flooded all of the time. A spider can “hold its breath” according to Tom Moran for many minutes. Could be an already sick spider, impaction, anything. Please don’t beat yourself up. We are rooting for you AND your balfouri.

 

[Whitelightning777]

The burrow system was wide open and complex, small cage. She would normally come out and look around when I filled the water dish.

The spider isn't in a death curl, just inert. The mold was bluish, almost the same color as the web and some of it was a pale yellow white but not visible from the outside.

I took the time to tear down the substrate I pulled out. It didn't smell that great either, like death and toadstools actually. Each layer of fungus was covered with a layer of web.

More molts then you could shake a stick at were also everywhere and some feeders were tied up and almost stacked like firewood.

The whole thing was almost like a wasp nest.

She had been outside more over the past week or two, which I felt was a good thing, also less reactive as well.

No loose feeders were there that could've done damage. I think if she was in premolt, they went to storage if not--dinnertime. The number of stacked feeders was pretty close to the number of undiscovered molts, 3 or 4 of them, not including the ones I removed when brought to the surface.

I should've taken pics!! Drats!!

 

[Whitelightning777]

Definitely wait at least 24 hrs if not longer and just let her be. Some people wait for them to start smelling or molding before getting rid of them just in case.

I’ve never heard of mold showing up so quickly and smelling bad. Not totally sure without looking at your enclosure but it sounds like not enough ventilation for the amount of dampness and heat in the enclosure. Just a guess, I really don’t know. Tarantulas encounter mold in the wild all the time, so unless it was just rampant I doubt that was it.

Could have been drowning but theres really no way to tell. I only attempted the flooding method twice. Both times it didn’t work and ended up being more of a pain than anything, though it didn’t end up in a dead spider.

Also could have just been a combination of wverything all at once.

I don’t think there is anything else you can do at this point. Good luck

Thats even stranger. The water dish would go bone dry every 16 hours like clockwork and the upper layers were dusty. Even when I was pulling the burrow apart, half of it was bone dry but not the molded stuff.

I guess if there's no death curl then it's still a 1% chance....

 

[Whitelightning777]

I’m so sorry @Whitelightning777. Dunno what the mold was, but I doubt you killed your spider. Spiders burrows in the wild get flooded all of the time. A spider can “hold its breath” according to Tom Moran for many minutes. Could be an already sick spider, impaction, anything. Please don’t beat yourself up. We are rooting for you AND your balfouri.

I was looking at pictures of mold, which linked into slime mold. What I saw wasn't exactly the same but there was some resemblance. It also looked like that stuff that gets on bread or strawberries.

Question; Does doing mold kill spiders? Also, what about the H pulchripes which is in the exact same enclosure? I should note that one builds burrows up from the ground not as deep not still. They were right next to one another!!

 

[Metalman2004]

Thats even stranger. The water dish would go bone dry every 16 hours like clockwork and the upper layers were dusty. Even when I was pulling the burrow apart, half of it was bone dry but not the molded stuff.

I guess if there's no death curl then it's still a 1% chance....

If there was any webbing at all on/in/ over the water dish the water was probably wicking out. I just rehoused a gbb and it webbed a tiny bit on its wwter bowl and the water was gone in just a few hrs. Removed the bit of webbing, no more wicking.

Really its anyone’s guess what it really was that happened to her.

 

[Arachnoclown]

Sorry to hear about your T. Flooding method has proven to be a extremely dangerous method to remove a T from its burrow especially a young T. Digging is always the best. Yellow mold would scare me the most...a little white mold isn't bad in moderation.

 

[Whitelightning777]

There's an update. I noticed a huge amount of whitish fluid which has left the body. Her position is no longer straight but bent at an unnatural angle.

The problem is that this is a huge fluid loss. I took a dropper and dripped fluid upon her fangs.

The thing is that spiders work with hydraulic pressure. Even if the water gets in, the electrolytes etc are gone. Your nervous system needs that if you become dehydrated. There are cases of humans who have done the gallon challenge with water going into cardiac arrest because all the salinity in the body is reduced.

In a few hours I'm going to try mixing up a solution of contact lens saline solution and maybe some type of sugar, similar to a sport drunk like Gatorade but diluted. Its a one in a million Hail Mary pass. Her movements even before weren't exactly normal, way to slow.

I think it is impaction. I read about this happening before. Perhaps all the webbing to stop that mold over taxed the body. The abdomen is literally half the size it was before and the legs are in the death curl position.

At this point, I don't think there's a down side. Had anyone tried this before?

 

[Enn49]

My worry is that if mould has appeared the container must have been wet and M. balfouri originate from arid climes.

Has she injured herself? If that is where the fluid is coming from then you need to dust it with corn flour, it will act as a scab and give her a chance.

 

[Whitelightning777]

The fluids came from the back like from the spinnerets. There are no injuries.

 

[Whitelightning777]

That's always fatal I'm assuming?

 

[Arachnoclown]

I lost a T along time ago due to impaction...never a good ending.

 

[Whitelightning777]

Here’s a video a seen a while back from Alan Hicken complete with yellow mould

Holy crap!! Yep, that's it. It was sort of on the glass in the front. He recognized the issue much earlier. I don't think most people pinch grab that one!! The swollen abdomen looks similar.

There wasn't any of the slightly blue stuff there however in his video.

The thing is that spider is arboreal, meaning contact with the substrate and mold would've been much more limited.

Ultimately, he lost that spider as well I believe.

A week or two ago and once in a while I sneezed shortly after feeding the tarantulas including her. I'm allergic to pollen and so on. The top of the substrate was so dry that there was a slightly dusty appearance.

Those were probably clues to mold, which sadly I missed. It's understandable why she was spending more time outside and kept the burrows wide open!!

It's a shame because I was mulling over rehousing her ever since she became the same size as my Lasiodora Klugi when I first got her.

That what happens when you don't listen to your gut intuition!!

In that case, she spent most of her life, 3rd day onward into the 3 gallon tank. I just dropped the food through the hole in the skull and she ate just fine.

(At the time my fully grown scorpion was already in the 3 gallon and since l Klugi gets much l bigger then that she was in the 5 gallon. I switched them shortly thereafter even though the L Klugi had no problem eating in either enclosure. Today, both are in 5 gallon enclosures.)

You should've read what some folks said about cage size!! There's no doubt that this spider could've done the same thing. After all, I was just dropping things into the entrance of the burrow. She probably could've done fine there even at an inch in size.

As a last ditch effort, I did administer a diluted mixture of saline contact lense solution, which is non toxic and some juice together with distilled water before going to work tonight.

The chances of this working are a million to one.

I guess the next step is putting her into the freezer for an hour just to be sure and then destruction of the body?