size matters ;) lol

[~8-legz~]

ok here goes.... I know T's can get stressed if they have too much room but I am buying my daughter a spiderling A.versicolor that's supposed to be 1" - 1 1/4" and I don't want to give it to her in a crappy little tiny enclosure because that would seem cheap to me lol so I was wondering if it would be ok to put it into a 12x12x12 exo terra? I know arboreal setups are usually taller but there is more than enough space in every direction so it will have plenty of room to feel up high... and when I end up rehousing it it will end up in a 12x12x18 exo terra (I have a thing for the exo terra terrariums!) so I guess the question is do u think its going to stress it out really bad having TOO much room? and as for the exo terra's I eventually want to have at least one of every size and a room dedicated to my T's

 

[Scoolman]

A tarantula is no more stressed in a 100gal tank than it would be in a 10gal. Choose the size the is right for you. A larger enclosure will require more vigilence and a little more effort than a smaller one would.

 

[~8-legz~]

well than whats all this hogwash I have been reading that they get stressed in big enclosures? misinformation is a b**** lol

 

[Scoolman]

They live in the big wide world, many dont venture more than a meter from their burrows, others will wander great distances in search of prey. In a small enclosure they may simply create a bide and be done, in a larger enclosure they will explore, choose a suitable place for a hide and hunker down.
The "large enclosures will stress them" debate is how someone validates their use of tiny boxes. Thier is no merit to the debate. Choose the enclosure that fits your needs.

 

[~8-legz~]

awesome thanks! I will have every T I own in an exo terra of all different sizes sooner or later... I think they are really sharp looking and super natural with the backgrounds and I think a whole room full of them would look bad ass! I cant wait until I have to buy a huge terrestrial enclosure like a 36x24x18 for my LP that I am getting that is only 1/2" now but will possibly be 9-10" someday! that amazes me haha

 

[Kymura]

They live in the big wide world, many dont venture more than a meter from their burrows, others will wander great distances in search of prey. In a small enclosure they may simply create a bide and be done, in a larger enclosure they will explore, choose a suitable place for a hide and hunker down.
The "large enclosures will stress them" debate is how someone validates their use of tiny boxes. Thier is no merit to the debate. Choose the enclosure that fits your needs.

Thank you!! This has been driving me crazy, they aren't born in a box in nature dang it. So it's never made much sense to me. Couldn't figure out why they just didn't pick an area as they would in the wild. Some rehousing coming up soon. I HATE the tiny enclosures.

 

[Chubbs]

In addition to having rather inadequate cross-ventilation (which is vital for the species you are keeping) those exo terra tanks not only take up too much room, but they're ridiculously overpriced, and I don't see how most people could keep an entire collection of tarantulas in these things without going broke pretty damn fast. I don't get the obsession with these large enclosures, because it really is just a waste of space. Yes, I totally understand you want it to look nice, but the spider is going to make a lot of changes to the enclosure once it gets settled in, and some of these may interfere with that. It's just completely pointless in my opinion, everything is just going to get webbed over, dug up, buried, etc. The enclosure needs to be built based on the spider's needs, not the other way around. Why risk stressing the animal out, just so you can have a nice fancy-looking enclosure? I keep my Avic slings in tall deli cups with plenty of holes drilled in the sides. Once they hit about 2 inches I move them into a tall 1 gal plastic jar. These enclosures are very easy to modify, as I can drill right through them without having to worry about cracking it. Good luck doing that with glass. You can buy a cheap enclosure, and still create a really great set-up. I have to disagree with Kymura, because this isn't the wild. These are captive conditions, and it really is not the same at all. I really can't stand when people use that comparison, because it makes no sense.

 

[Kymura]

@Chubbs
But Chubbs, they are adaptable, if a sack hatches in nature they will pick their spot and make it their own. Saying keep them in tiny enclosures just makes no sense to me. I'm not wanting something 20G plus. And I'm fine with acrylic or plastic enclosures. But if my avic is going into a gallon container eventually anyway, can't any juvenile arboreal go into the gallon size? I'm honestly asking here, not trying to start a major debate. It's just that, I feel like it might take them a few days more to pick their spot, but that's no different then the readjustment time with a rehouse. Im not saying a quarter inch sling. But any reasonable size sling.

 

[Chubbs]

@Chubbs
But Chubbs, they are adaptable, if a sack hatches in nature they will pick their spot and make it their own. Saying keep them in tiny enclosures just makes no sense to me. I'm not wanting something 20G plus. And I'm fine with acrylic or plastic enclosures. But if my avic is going into a gallon container eventually anyway, can't any juvenile arboreal go into the gallon size? I'm honestly asking here, not trying to start a major debate. It's just that, I feel like it might take them a few days more to pick their spot, but that's no different then the readjustment time with a rehouse. Im not saying a quarter inch sling. But any reasonable size sling.

Yes absolutely, I don't see why not.I actually keep all of my arboreals in these when they're juveniles, I just mentioned Avics since that's the genus that this thread applies to. I'm not saying keep them in tiny containers either, I just don't see the point in using over sized enclosures. Most of the spiderlings in the wild will get picked off by predators before they can even make it to a safe spot in which to create a hide. Hence why there are so many young to begin with. Wild tarantulas live in a very stressful environment believe it or not, so in my opinion, it's probably not a good idea to try and emulate those types of conditions 100 percent (such as giving them a ridiculous amount o space). I mean, these are captive animals that we as owners want to be as stress-free as possible. Why risk it? That's just how I see this whole debate.

 

[SasyStace]

They live in the big wide world, many dont venture more than a meter from their burrows, others will wander great distances in search of prey. In a small enclosure they may simply create a bide and be done, in a larger enclosure they will explore, choose a suitable place for a hide and hunker down.
The "large enclosures will stress them" debate is how someone validates their use of tiny boxes. Thier is no merit to the debate. Choose the enclosure that fits your needs.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for posting this!! I have battled with this discussion in the past and given up....

 

[Tomoran]

I agree that it definitely won't hurt in most instances, and I've seen some gorgeous large enclosures. I also tend to use some larger houses myself. However, what about the folks that house terrestrials in overly large tanks with two much height? I don't think that this is a simple, cut-and-dry issue. I JUST spoke with someone who lost a G. porteri due to a fall from to top of a 20 gallon aquarium. This person didn't want the T that she had acquired from someone who kept it in plastic shoe box, to be "too cooped up." I think a bit of common sense needs to be exercised when considering the size of the enclosure.

Yes, in the wild they are free to roam, find an appropriate den, and settle where they would like. However, they also must hunt for food (someone periodically drops it in), have to worry about weather (the temps in our home are adjusted), and can be eaten by predators (other than a few cat stories, usually not an issue). There is also no glass, something that can really mess up a fat terrestrial's day. If you're going to set up a larger enclosure, it's not as simple as just dumping in a bit of substrate and some fancy decorations. Comparing the captivity to their lives in the wild just never quite works for me.

Keep in mind that as slings, tarantulas are a bit more susceptible to environmental conditions. Large enclosures make it much more difficult to control things like moisture levels and feedings. Do you want your T to be able to quickly and easily find its prey? Is it going to be easy for you to recognize if it ate or if there is just a cricket hiding in some corner. When your T secrets itself away for a molt, will you recognize this or think it just might be hiding in the enclosure? Avicularia may create funnel web well above the substrate, so dropping a tiny cricket on the substrate may make much more difficult to find its food. Just things to think about.

Again, I'm not arguing that folks shouldn't create larger and beautiful enclosures. I just think that their is a lot to think about before you drop a tiny sling in a large cage with the idea "well, this is how they live in the wild." It's just not that cut and dry.

 

[Tomoran]

ok here goes.... I know T's can get stressed if they have too much room but I am buying my daughter a spiderling A.versicolor that's supposed to be 1" - 1 1/4" and I don't want to give it to her in a crappy little tiny enclosure because that would seem cheap to me lol so I was wondering if it would be ok to put it into a 12x12x12 exo terra? I know arboreal setups are usually taller but there is more than enough space in every direction so it will have plenty of room to feel up high... and when I end up rehousing it it will end up in a 12x12x18 exo terra (I have a thing for the exo terra terrariums!) so I guess the question is do u think its going to stress it out really bad having TOO much room? and as for the exo terra's I eventually want to have at least one of every size and a room dedicated to my T's

I agree with Chubbs that the Exo Nanos don't have the cross ventilation most keepers look for with this species. Also, there can be gaps around the front door that would easily allow a 1-1.5" sling to escape (unless they changed this). Although you could definitely house it in something larger, something secure and with good ventilation would be paramount. A gentleman on the board just built his own enclosure that was gorgeous and appropriate to the species.

 

[~8-legz~]

there is a vent bar across the front and the gaps between the doors are about 1/16 of an inch and the screen top so ventilation shouldn't be a problem...

 

[Tomoran]

there is a vent bar across the front and the gaps between the doors are about 1/16 of an inch and the screen top so ventilation shouldn't be a problem...

Not just ventilation, cross ventilation. It mean airflow going through the sides. I have two of these, and the arboreal one is currently sitting in the garage because the screen top just makes my water dishes evaporate super fast. As for the vent bar, it only allows "airflow" from the front, and it's not particularly great.

Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't give your sling a larger enclosure, but I think that you should give it an appropriate one. In my opinion, the Exo Terra is okay for larger specimens, but it's design makes it a bit inappropriate for that species at that size. Could it work? Sure. However, having used them, I wouldn't chance it.

This is the thread where one of our members made his own. Notice the cross-ventilation (and it's nice and clears so it still offers a good view). http://www.tarantulaforum.com/threads/aicularia-versicolor-diy-enclousue.6544/#post-57032

 

[Scoolman]

I do advocate overly large enclosures, but I do think many keepers get to greedy and as a result they use overly small enclosures.
I use everything from 2oz condiment cups to 50gal tank, and evrything in between. Most of my Aphonopelma species are kept in 3 gal plastic storgae boxes, my adult G pulchra are in 10gal tanks, my adult T stirmi Precious is in a 50gal vivarium, while my juvie T stirmi is in a 20gal long vivarium, the list goes on.

 

[~8-legz~]

i would also think that if you are using larger enclosures instead of those tiny stuffy ones that ventilation wouldn't be much of an issue... they only need that much vent because they are stuck in a cup with a lid full of highly humid environment... if they have a ton of space where there is a ton of air it is all a matter of keeping the humidity right

 

[Scoolman]

Not just ventilation, cross ventilation. It mean airflow going through the sides. I have two of these, and the arboreal one is currently sitting in the garage because the screen top just makes my water dishes evaporate super fast. As for the vent bar, it only allows "airflow" from the front, and it's not particularly great.

Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't give your sling a larger enclosure, but I think that you should give it an appropriate one. In my opinion, the Exo Terra is okay for larger specimens, but it's design makes it a bit inappropriate for that species at that size. Could it work? Sure. However, having used them, I wouldn't chance it.

This is the thread where one of our members made his own. Notice the cross-ventilation (and it's nice and clears so it still offers a good view). http://www.tarantulaforum.com/threads/aicularia-versicolor-diy-enclousue.6544/#post-57032

Your water dish was evaporating so quickly because of the cross ventilation.

 

[Tomoran]

i would also think that if you are using larger enclosures instead of those tiny stuffy ones that ventilation wouldn't be much of an issue... they only need that much vent because they are stuck in a cup with a lid full of highly humid environment... if they have a ton of space where there is a ton of air it is all a matter of keeping the humidity right

You asked a question about a large enclosure for an Avicularia versicolor, a tarantula that has statistically caused some folks issues due to the fact that they are a bit less forgiving to husbandry mistakes. I agreed that a large enclosure would work, but argued that the Exo Terra you obviously have your heart set on are not great for what your suggesting, having used them before and having raised Avics. Again, I would like to point out that I ALSO use larger enclosures for many of my Ts, so I'm not arguing against large enclosures. Obviously, you've done your research on Avicularia care and know what you're doing (although, the fact that you mention "keeping the humidity right" makes me wonder what care sheets you've read...) I just saw someone who was asking about the appropriateness of a particular enclosure, and I shared my experience. That's all.

And large enclosures can still be stuffy and lack airflow, just so you're aware.

 

[Tomoran]

Your water dish was evaporating so quickly because of the cross ventilation.

Actually, if you read what I wrote, I was speaking about my Exo Terra with no cross-ventilation, but thanks.

 

[~8-legz~]

no need to get all bent out of shape i was just trying to make a point on my side of the discussion.... and as far as keeping the humidity right i just meant that i know they do better in high humidity so in a larger enclosure you need to keep a better eye on it because they can fluctuate so fast that's all