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new keeper’s observations

tapkoote

Active Member
3 Year Member
Messages
127
Location
the great north west
Renamed Prince Andrew, bought as a female, first named Anastasia after a fav. cat ,has been here 6 months. Since I’m retired ( from construction) we spend a lot of time together.
The first thing I learned about, was spiders climbing and falling. And being injured in the fall. Work place injuries are a constant topic where I come from. I couldn’t fathom a creature with many long legs crashing and burning. First I raised the level of substrate, ***shorten the fall distance. Then I read about the injuries and looked at a lot of enclosures. I see most of the hides on top of the ground with hard edges, cork/plastic, may seem soft to you. I made mine out of a micro wave dish, soft, pliable, and cut it to have a downward facing edge. Then buried it. I wanted a large water dish for humidity ( B-Smithy) so I buried it flush with ground level.
A fall in that vicinity would result in a bath not much else, the hard rim is flush with the soil, the foam floats.
I also watched him drop a big pile of dirt in his drinking water. I could see he didn’t want his feet wet, while he was drinking. He wanted something to rest on. I could have went to a smaller dish, as proposed. But I floated some foam on top - 1/2 the OD. I was told it was just “nature” to fill the dish with dirt/waste, - fools gold I say.
One theory was they (nature) said water would take the waste away, I had to laugh at that point, thats why the spider throws the remainder of dinner in the dish.
If thats the case B-Smithy would be found next to streams. Another said the spider didn’t want the smell to attract predators. I do see Andy dumping in one spot of the enclosure, but not his fresh water. All fools gold, he hasn’t dirtied his dish since. Sure he has a filter on his intake straw, but why clean it if he doesn’t have to. I think conservation of energy is one huge rule in life on this planet. Although humans don’t follow it.
I watched Andy climb and hang off the ledge at the top for hours at a time, why? I run free range crickets, they stink, he breathes close to the ground. Could it be the smell, or CO2? I built a fresh air scoop for the lid and turned on the over head fan, also opened up 1/2 the lid. Fresh air didn’t make any diff. Then I thought-where’s the warmest part of the enclosure? At the top, he may want to breathe the warmest air. I set up a 25W bulb, for heat,and he hasn’t climbed since, that I know of. But he does spend all his time at the warmest end of the tank.
Back to the free range crickets. I heard and read crickets will make a meal out of my B-Smithy. He was 3 3/4 inches when I got him.
If I was a cricket, not evolved with any special predator tools, mostly legs for escape. Why would I, (lowly garbage eating cricket) take a bite out of some huge hairy creature that out weighed me 10 fold? Cause I’m hungry. So I put small bits of table scraps in one corner, (bits of broccoli,oat meal,raisin or two, some celery top) and they feed and drink over there. I observed them too. And I did see cannabal behavior.
I always put two in, that way they huddle up and muddle about. One cricket alone, If he sensed the spider, would hide. Two crickets are dumber than one. But the big mistake is hiding in the bunker, thats his dining room after all.

Now to the substrate, I started off with one bag of coconut husk, not enough I found out. Got a bag of jungle mix. Still too far to fall.
Got a couple bricks of coconut husk. Now the fall risk was eliminated but it was so wet he couldn’t find a place to sit and rest. Another night in his little carry box, by now he see’s me as a pest!
I baked the soil in the oven and was told, since it was sterile it would kill him. Because some alien bacteria would take over. Luckily he survived,the sterile substrate.
Here was the complaint though. Those coconut husk came with hairs, which would be like living with tree branches laying every where that - I walk/eat/sleep. I planned a change, bought some organic potting soil, dried it and after he molted & ate for a week, installed.
He seems more stable with it but the vermiculite sticks to the hairs on his legs. I’m thinking dirt next time. Sifted, sterilized and left to stand in the house. After all he’s got to live in the same house environment I do, and he has for the past 6 months.
 

Pasodama

Well-Known Member
3 Year Member
Messages
423
Location
U.S.A.
Enjoyed reading this.:)

You put a lot of thought toward your beautiful boy. He's lucky to have you as a roommate ... and maid, and caterer, etc.;)

Not sure why someone would say that sterilized substrate would kill your T.
It is not a bad thing to do. If nothing else, it was, certainly, proven by Andrew's survival.
 

tapkoote

Active Member
3 Year Member
Messages
127
Location
the great north west
Enjoyed reading this.:)

You put a lot of thought toward your beautiful boy. He's lucky to have you as a roommate ... and maid, and caterer, etc.;)

Not sure why someone would say that sterilized substrate would kill your T.
It is not a bad thing to do. If nothing else, it was, certainly, proven by Andrew's survival.
As it was explained to me, anything sterile could be colonized by harmful bacteria and take over.
 

Pasodama

Well-Known Member
3 Year Member
Messages
423
Location
U.S.A.
Whether sterilized, or not, pathogens will colonize any source that is suitable to their needs/survival.
Also, unless something is kept under strict sterilized conditions, it becomes "contaminated" once removed from sterile conditions.

Now, at least one concern, with sterilization, is if a life form is always kept under sterilized conditions (over sterilized). This is because organisms (mammals, including people, & other entities) must encounter "germs" in order to build a natural resistance to them.
If one were to live in a sterile bubble (let's say, placed there as a baby), then suddenly taken out of the bubble to face the world (let's say, as an adult), that entity could end up in a seriously bad way as the "germs", that normally wouldn't be a problem due to built up resistance, enter their body.
Most all organisms/entities, of course, are not going to live in a sterile bubble.;)
Although ~certain~ sterilization scenarios could bring certain non-resistance to ~certain~ germs. It depends.

Bottom line is that there are no worries with soil, that is sterilized by heat (or boiling water LoL), to be used as substrate.
Although, honestly, heating soil doesn't kill every single pathogen that may exist in the soil that is being heat/moisture sterilized (or just heat dried). Some pathogens can survive the process.
 

kormath

Well-Known Member
1,000+ Post Club
3 Year Member
Messages
3,565
Location
Idaho
Good post! i like seeing keepers put lots of thought into their pets like this :) few comments i have -

I floated some foam on top
I'd remove the foam. Foam and sponges in water dishes are a breeding ground for bacteria. If you want something for him to keep his toes dry use marbles, aquarium gravel, or similar.

I was told it was just “nature” to fill the dish with dirt/waste, - fools gold I say.
One theory was they (nature) said water would take the waste away, I had to laugh at that point, thats why the spider throws the remainder of dinner in the dish.
If thats the case B-Smithy would be found next to streams. Another said the spider didn’t want the smell to attract predators. I do see Andy dumping in one spot of the enclosure, but not his fresh water. All fools gold, he hasn’t dirtied his dish since. Sure he has a filter on his intake straw, but why clean it if he doesn’t have to. I think conservation of energy is one huge rule in life on this planet. Although humans don’t follow it.
My B. smithi tossed substrate and his bolus in the water dish constantly, then i moved the dish to a different corner of his cage and it stays clean now, he continues to pile up the bolus and substrate he moves to that same corner. All the ideas above are plausible, personally i think they pick a spot and dump the waste there. and each species is different. my B. vagans uses a corner, my B. albo tosses it where he feels like. My son's A. versicolor decorates his web with the bolus.

I watched Andy climb and hang off the ledge at the top for hours at a time, why? I run free range crickets, they stink, he breathes close to the ground. Could it be the smell, or CO2? I built a fresh air scoop for the lid and turned on the over head fan, also opened up 1/2 the lid. Fresh air didn’t make any diff. Then I thought-where’s the warmest part of the enclosure? At the top, he may want to breathe the warmest air. I set up a 25W bulb, for heat,and he hasn’t climbed since, that I know of. But he does spend all his time at the warmest end of the tank.
Numerous reasons they'll climb. could be weather related, most of mine will climb the walls before a storm, some will climb to get away from prey when they go into premolt. could be just stretching his legs and exploring, or setting up trip lines to detect prey.

Back to the free range crickets. I heard and read crickets will make a meal out of my B-Smithy. He was 3 3/4 inches when I got him.
If I was a cricket, not evolved with any special predator tools, mostly legs for escape. Why would I, (lowly garbage eating cricket) take a bite out of some huge hairy creature that out weighed me 10 fold? Cause I’m hungry. So I put small bits of table scraps in one corner, (bits of broccoli,oat meal,raisin or two, some celery top) and they feed and drink over there. I observed them too. And I did see cannabal behavior.
I always put two in, that way they huddle up and muddle about. One cricket alone, If he sensed the spider, would hide. Two crickets are dumber than one. But the big mistake is hiding in the bunker, thats his dining room after all.
The fear is when a T goes into molt, they have no defense then and crickets are known to chew on molting spiders. It's one of the 3 reasons i don't use crickets as feeders. They can harm the T during a molt, they stink, and they're really short lived. I get crickets from the local pet store (LPS) maybe 3 times a year just to give them something different in their diet. but i never feed them to T's i suspect are in premolt, and if the cricket isn't eaten within 24 hours i remove it.

Now to the substrate, I started off with one bag of coconut husk, not enough I found out. Got a bag of jungle mix. Still too far to fall.
Got a couple bricks of coconut husk. Now the fall risk was eliminated but it was so wet he couldn’t find a place to sit and rest. Another night in his little carry box, by now he see’s me as a pest!
I baked the soil in the oven and was told, since it was sterile it would kill him. Because some alien bacteria would take over. Luckily he survived,the sterile substrate.
Here was the complaint though. Those coconut husk came with hairs, which would be like living with tree branches laying every where that - I walk/eat/sleep. I planned a change, bought some organic potting soil, dried it and after he molted & ate for a week, installed.
He seems more stable with it but the vermiculite sticks to the hairs on his legs. I’m thinking dirt next time. Sifted, sterilized and left to stand in the house. After all he’s got to live in the same house environment I do, and he has for the past 6 months.
You did hte same thing i did when i first used the bricks of coconut fiber :) so now i take a brick put it in a 3 or 4 gallon sterlite tub, dump in a gallon of water, let it sit over night to absorb and expand. then i stir it up and let it dry for a day, then stir and repeat till it's all dried out.

Yes it has fibers, but i think it's no different than grass or twigs in their natural habitat. plus the fibers mixed in help for burrowing. My favorite mix of substate is half and half coco fiber and peat. I moisten the mix for the small slings so they can burrow easier. The best part is both of these are very light. so when i have adult enclosures sitting on shelves in my room i won't need huge anchor bolts in the sheetrock to keep a 10 or 20 gal aquarium full of top soil on the shelf.
 

tapkoote

Active Member
3 Year Member
Messages
127
Location
the great north west
Yes it has fibers, but i think it's no different than grass or twigs in their natural habitat. plus the fibers mixed in help for burrowing.

UM, If I scale those fibers up to my size, they're more like tree branches IMO.:)
And the foam, the fancy closed cell "medical grade" /expensive/ closed cell foam I bought, sunk.(evidently not as advertised) Maybe I shouldn't have, but, went back to the packing foam.
I like the large water dish for humidity/dry feet. He seems to like it also. Bacteria would grow on the dish about the same rate, I'd think. Neither get slimy in a weeks time. I may be playing with a ticking time bomb though.:(
Thanks and I am going to try dirt in the summer.
 

kormath

Well-Known Member
1,000+ Post Club
3 Year Member
Messages
3,565
Location
Idaho
UM, If I scale those fibers up to my size, they're more like tree branches IMO.:)
And the foam, the fancy closed cell "medical grade" /expensive/ closed cell foam I bought, sunk.(evidently not as advertised) Maybe I shouldn't have, but, went back to the packing foam.
I like the large water dish for humidity/dry feet. He seems to like it also. Bacteria would grow on the dish about the same rate, I'd think. Neither get slimy in a weeks time. I may be playing with a ticking time bomb though.:(
Thanks and I am going to try dirt in the summer.

But we don't scale them up, they live in burrows in the wild with sticks and twigs and grass/weed/tree roots in them without scaling those up to our size. So a few strands of coconut fiber the thickness of a hair or so is nothing. ;)

The sponge/foam retains moisture, where the dish will dry out. So mold/bacteria/etc. will grow on/in the foam/sponge much faster than on the surface of a water dish.
 

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