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Hard to swallow pills for Newbies on the site
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<blockquote data-quote="Nunua" data-source="post: 140738" data-attributes="member: 4947"><p>How matter how much you say that people should never assume things, you do it yourself all the time. Believe or not, I did read the original post, and I must say that it was extremely heavy thing to read as it was just a wall of text.</p><p></p><p>Yes, you got ok points about tarantulas not having behavioral characteristics of dogs, humans, or other more complex animals, but then again it was more of a frustrated rant and seemed like that you took the whole first post as a mental gunfight. I didn't feel like sitting down and answering in a long way as you seem to have your defenses high up, and it'd be just waste of my time to see how you answer in an aggressive, arrogant or absolutely irrespective way just because I don't have a degree in animal sciences and I don't handle my tarantulas... Anyway, here I go. After that I will not pay more attention to this storm.</p><p></p><p>- No one has given you a significant amount of backlash. It's all about how you react the information given.</p><p></p><p><em>"I don't simply parrot other individuals opinions unless they have some sort of professional degree and experience"</em></p><p>- One should never blindly trust a person, not even one with an acceptable degree.</p><p></p><p><em>"You have to try and handle them often and observe their behaviors with a level of awareness and sensibility."</em></p><p>- Why would I do that. As far as the studies show, tarantulas are far less complex animal compared to for example mammals. They do not understand the concept of handling, so guiding them onto your hand is nothing but a disturbance for them. If the tarantula just casually walks on your when the enclosure is opened, then it's just doing it's thing, but touching their back legs to make them to move, or scooping them out from their enclosures are completely unnecessary for them.</p><p></p><p>"<em>One of my family members has gotten degrees.....</em>"</p><p>- I apologize, but this is an extremely immature argument. It may have been extremely helpful on your journey, but even his/her knowledge is not the absolute truth and word. It also makes me a bit doubtful that you keep telling how she/he has several degrees on pretty much every single field of expertise regarding this subject.</p><p></p><p>"<em>A spider is too simplistic to tolerate behavior"</em></p><p>- Yes, tarantula probably does not tolerate in the behavior wise, but they do tolerate in the terms of biology and ecology.</p><p></p><p>I do agree with you that it's not maybe the best way to say that a tarantula is too docile to defend itself. After all, even curling up is a defend mechanism.</p><p></p><p>"<em>I would recommend you learn and study your own individual arachnids behavior"</em></p><p>- Yes, I do agree. If you care to read any other posts on this forum, you'd see that every single one is encouraged to see how their tarantula(s) behave. Anyway, this does not eliminate the fact that tarantulas do not need hugs and affection from humans.</p><p></p><p>"<em>It's important to live your life and gain experience on your own."</em></p><p>- Yes. Though, despite this argument you keep acting in a way which radiates the attitude about how several members with years and years of experience in tarantula keeping have weak opinions, wrong beliefs, and how they're not capable to advise people just because they're providing tarantulas their basic needs and do not have a degree in animal sciences.</p><p></p><p>About how you disagree with the "Care Guides,Pet stores,and Your emotions are not reliable sources" - Well, you clearly want to stay blind for the main point. Experienced keepers usually have the most current knowledge. Everything written gets outdated very fast, no matter how amazing and knowledgeable the author is.</p><p></p><p>I already mentioned what I think about pet stores.</p><p></p><p>"<em>if these hobbyists say arachnids dislike handling...."</em></p><p>- Like you already showed, the diversity of "liking" and "disliking" things is a never ending story. The usual meaning of tarantulas disliking the handling relies on about what I said about touching a tarantula being a disturbance for them, but also the fact that tarantula setae seems to be extremely sensitive organ. If you think about nerve impulses, pumping blood, oil on the skin, breathing etc. you could imagine how many unnecessary sensations a tarantula gets when being handled. Yes, they can live with them and they're not harmful but as you mentioned how tarantulas rely on their instincts,</p><p>having these sensations is most likely overwhelming as tarantulas are basically just a clump of nerves.</p><p></p><p>"<em>I was also told by a hobbyist that it would harm my tarantula to give her heat lights."</em></p><p>- I haven't seen the post, so I can't say if the formatting was "may", "would" or "could", but it is potentially harmful if not done right. Your Avic does not have deep substrate bed, so it can not dig a tunnel if the heat makes it uncomfortable. #Edit: Also, you're having an arboreal species so its natural behavior is not to dig underground to escape the heat. Web tunnels between the leaves, brances and holes in the tree are their way to go - Therefore it needs an enclosure that imitates its natural habitat so it can go with the instincts what comes to hiding, hunting and regulating her life. There are several cases among the hobbyists, where a tarantula has died on dehydration after a careless use of a heat lamp or mat.</p><p></p><p>"<em>She was freezing cold"</em></p><p>- Tarantulas have temperature preferences but as they are ectothermic, simplistic animals they don't feel cold as we do. When the body temperature goes down, it affects on their hormonal cycles, metabolism etc. by slowing them down. Though, it is true that tarantulas are dependent on environment determining in the matter of thermoregulation, but it also works other way round - See my comment about heat lights. If you say that your Avic was hiding in your hood only because it had to do it for surviving, I'd be extremely concerned as a keeper. This means that you should be extremely uncomfortable living in there as well, as humans have a very narrow comfort and survival zones what comes to the temperatures, compared to arachnids.</p><p></p><p>"<em>You should learn to be mature and respect others opinions"</em></p><p>- This is true, but it's the same with you as well. Writing a long wall of text, implying that no one reads it, and pretty much reject everyone without a degree in animal sciences with an attitude of "I know the best because my family member!" is far from mature behavior.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Nunua, post: 140738, member: 4947"] How matter how much you say that people should never assume things, you do it yourself all the time. Believe or not, I did read the original post, and I must say that it was extremely heavy thing to read as it was just a wall of text. Yes, you got ok points about tarantulas not having behavioral characteristics of dogs, humans, or other more complex animals, but then again it was more of a frustrated rant and seemed like that you took the whole first post as a mental gunfight. I didn't feel like sitting down and answering in a long way as you seem to have your defenses high up, and it'd be just waste of my time to see how you answer in an aggressive, arrogant or absolutely irrespective way just because I don't have a degree in animal sciences and I don't handle my tarantulas... Anyway, here I go. After that I will not pay more attention to this storm. - No one has given you a significant amount of backlash. It's all about how you react the information given. [I]"I don't simply parrot other individuals opinions unless they have some sort of professional degree and experience"[/I] - One should never blindly trust a person, not even one with an acceptable degree. [I]"You have to try and handle them often and observe their behaviors with a level of awareness and sensibility."[/I] - Why would I do that. As far as the studies show, tarantulas are far less complex animal compared to for example mammals. They do not understand the concept of handling, so guiding them onto your hand is nothing but a disturbance for them. If the tarantula just casually walks on your when the enclosure is opened, then it's just doing it's thing, but touching their back legs to make them to move, or scooping them out from their enclosures are completely unnecessary for them. "[I]One of my family members has gotten degrees.....[/I]" - I apologize, but this is an extremely immature argument. It may have been extremely helpful on your journey, but even his/her knowledge is not the absolute truth and word. It also makes me a bit doubtful that you keep telling how she/he has several degrees on pretty much every single field of expertise regarding this subject. "[I]A spider is too simplistic to tolerate behavior"[/I] - Yes, tarantula probably does not tolerate in the behavior wise, but they do tolerate in the terms of biology and ecology. I do agree with you that it's not maybe the best way to say that a tarantula is too docile to defend itself. After all, even curling up is a defend mechanism. "[I]I would recommend you learn and study your own individual arachnids behavior"[/I] - Yes, I do agree. If you care to read any other posts on this forum, you'd see that every single one is encouraged to see how their tarantula(s) behave. Anyway, this does not eliminate the fact that tarantulas do not need hugs and affection from humans. "[I]It's important to live your life and gain experience on your own."[/I] - Yes. Though, despite this argument you keep acting in a way which radiates the attitude about how several members with years and years of experience in tarantula keeping have weak opinions, wrong beliefs, and how they're not capable to advise people just because they're providing tarantulas their basic needs and do not have a degree in animal sciences. About how you disagree with the "Care Guides,Pet stores,and Your emotions are not reliable sources" - Well, you clearly want to stay blind for the main point. Experienced keepers usually have the most current knowledge. Everything written gets outdated very fast, no matter how amazing and knowledgeable the author is. I already mentioned what I think about pet stores. "[I]if these hobbyists say arachnids dislike handling...."[/I] - Like you already showed, the diversity of "liking" and "disliking" things is a never ending story. The usual meaning of tarantulas disliking the handling relies on about what I said about touching a tarantula being a disturbance for them, but also the fact that tarantula setae seems to be extremely sensitive organ. If you think about nerve impulses, pumping blood, oil on the skin, breathing etc. you could imagine how many unnecessary sensations a tarantula gets when being handled. Yes, they can live with them and they're not harmful but as you mentioned how tarantulas rely on their instincts, having these sensations is most likely overwhelming as tarantulas are basically just a clump of nerves. "[I]I was also told by a hobbyist that it would harm my tarantula to give her heat lights."[/I] - I haven't seen the post, so I can't say if the formatting was "may", "would" or "could", but it is potentially harmful if not done right. Your Avic does not have deep substrate bed, so it can not dig a tunnel if the heat makes it uncomfortable. #Edit: Also, you're having an arboreal species so its natural behavior is not to dig underground to escape the heat. Web tunnels between the leaves, brances and holes in the tree are their way to go - Therefore it needs an enclosure that imitates its natural habitat so it can go with the instincts what comes to hiding, hunting and regulating her life. There are several cases among the hobbyists, where a tarantula has died on dehydration after a careless use of a heat lamp or mat. "[I]She was freezing cold"[/I] - Tarantulas have temperature preferences but as they are ectothermic, simplistic animals they don't feel cold as we do. When the body temperature goes down, it affects on their hormonal cycles, metabolism etc. by slowing them down. Though, it is true that tarantulas are dependent on environment determining in the matter of thermoregulation, but it also works other way round - See my comment about heat lights. If you say that your Avic was hiding in your hood only because it had to do it for surviving, I'd be extremely concerned as a keeper. This means that you should be extremely uncomfortable living in there as well, as humans have a very narrow comfort and survival zones what comes to the temperatures, compared to arachnids. "[I]You should learn to be mature and respect others opinions"[/I] - This is true, but it's the same with you as well. Writing a long wall of text, implying that no one reads it, and pretty much reject everyone without a degree in animal sciences with an attitude of "I know the best because my family member!" is far from mature behavior. [/QUOTE]
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