chilean rose still not looking good

[mercifulfate3]

so a wee update to my previous thread.

i posted how my chilean rose isnt looking great

http://www.tarantulaforum.com/threa...needs-advice-on-chilean-rose.3485/#post-28238

a kind member suggested he/she was molting by the sounds of it. would love more advise if possible. thats 2 days now that he/she has been in this position its not turning over just like its curled up in a ball kinda thing. the only movement made was once and it was a small movement of the legs and thats it.

the humidity of the tank is 65%-70%
and the temp is in the green. im worried i disturb it from its molt but at the same time im worried its stuck in a molt, or dying,

ill attach some more photos thanks in advance

please

anyone suggest a solution or what i can possibly do?

 

[mercifulfate3]

sorry i half wrote this last night, its now into the 3rd day of him in the same position, but today i have moved the tank about and not a movement at all

 

[Darren]

It's possible he's dehydrated. Crumpled legs and lack of movement can be an indicator. Have u brushed him at all? Do you get a reaction if you did? If you got no movement I'd be concerned that its his final pose I'm afraid to say.. I hope I'm wrong @mercifulfate3

 

[mercifulfate3]

It's possible he's dehydrated. Crumpled legs and lack of movement can be an indicator. Have u brushed him at all? Do you get a reaction if you did? If you got no movement I'd be concerned that its his final pose I'm afraid to say.. I hope I'm wrong @mercifulfate3

i hope your wrong too and i have tried to lightly spray the tank from a distance and last time i touched him with a brush he gave me a fright and terrified me from doing it again. what if he is molting and i stress him out? ive never been through anything like this before so really not sure what to expect @Darren

 

[Darren]

@mercifulfate3 gave you a fright? Don't be frightend of touching him with a brush, it will not hurt him. Yes he may shy away, he may rear up, but you should have ample distance between you to react if he does get defensive. Personally I would bite the bullet, see what happens if u lightly brush him, if he moves, he's ok and prob dehydrated. If he does not move.. Well further attention may be required. I truly hope I'm wrong too

 

[Sabeth]

I don't like that pose he's in…tucking the legs under is not a good sign. Something that has helped tarantulas in such situations is placing them in an ICU. If I were you I'd go ahead and do that, it won't do him any harm and it may do him some good. Let me know if you need help with that, or if you already know how to set him up.

 

[mercifulfate3]

@mercifulfate3 gave you a fright? Don't be frightend of touching him with a brush, it will not hurt him. Yes he may shy away, he may rear up, but you should have ample distance between you to react if he does get defensive. Personally I would bite the bullet, see what happens if u lightly brush him, if he moves, he's ok and prob dehydrated. If he does not move.. Well further attention may be required. I truly hope I'm wrong too

so you do suggest it then, what if he is in his molt and i disturb it, will it not kill it if i do this?

 

[mercifulfate3]

I don't like that pose he's in…tucking the legs under is not a good sign. Something that has helped tarantulas in such situations is placing them in an ICU. If I were you I'd go ahead and do that, it won't do him any harm and it may do him some good. Let me know if you need help with that, or if you already know how to set him up.

i have no idea how i would do this? can you help please.

 

[Darren]

ICU sounds like the best idea. You need a clean plastic container, and some paper towl, and wet the Paper (kitchen roll) in warm water. Not saturated as you don't want him to drown. Place lid on, with holes in top, and leave in the habitat..(unless anyone has another idea) never done this personally but I've got friends with Spiders that have. You won't hurt him to touch him, he might even react, in which case u know he's just resting. @mercifulfate3

 

[mercifulfate3]

ICU sounds like the best idea. You need a clean plastic container, and some paper towl, and wet the Paper (kitchen roll) in warm water. Not saturated as you don't want him to drown. Place lid on, with holes in top, and leave in the habitat..(unless anyone has another idea) never done this personally but I've got friends with Spiders that have. You won't hurt him to touch him, he might even react, in which case u know he's just resting. @mercifulfate3

ok so i just touched his back legs with a brush like you suggested and nothing, i can move him but he is so easy to move and no reaction back at all.do you still think there is a chance for him in ICU?
see he is on his water balls and there is lots of full water balls in his tank, is it still possible for his to be dehydrated?

 

[mercifulfate3]

ok so i just touched his back legs with a brush like you suggested and nothing, i can move him but he is so easy to move and no reaction back at all.do you still think there is a chance for him in ICU?
see he is on his water balls and there is lots of full water balls in his tank, is it still possible for his to be dehydrated?

 

[Sabeth]

While moving a molting T is to be avoided if at all possible, in case of emergency it can be done extremely carefully. The danger with moving them is that the developing exoskeleton is very soft and easily damaged. If your T is curling his legs under...and it looks like he is...then at this point it's better to try and fail than not try at all. The ICU is not a miracle cure but it has worked. These instructions are taken from The Tarantula Keeper's Guide.

1) You can use really any kind of plastic container. It shouldn't be too large, though. Fold a standard paper towel in fourths and place it on the bottom. Pour some room-temp water onto it and dump out the excess. You actually want the toweling to be pretty wet as the extra high humidity is essential.

2) To move the T: Working slowly and gently, slide a piece of thin cardboard under the tarantula (you want to avoid any compression, pinching, etc.), then lift it and place it in the ICU. You don't need to remove it from the cardboard. Make sure ahead of time, though, that the container will be big enough to accomodate the cardboard.

3) Place the lid on the container with two 1/4-inch ventilation holes in it. The entire container should be placed somewhere dark and warm, such as on top of a refrigerator.

4) The T should be checked at least twice a day. Every other day, move it to a fresh ICU. (Have an extra container handy for this purpose.) If possible, during transfer pick up the cardboard that has the T already on it so you don't have to move it more than necessary.

5) Meanwhile, the T's cage should be cleaned and the substrate replaced.

6) The hope is that by the T's third stint in the ICU, it will have begun to improve. If it hasn't, move it back to its original cage for a day so it can dry off. You can return it to the ICU for several more stays.

More from The Guide:

"...the wet paper towel will raise humidity, reducing the loss of water through the thin membranes of [the tarantula's] book lungs and appendage joints. And, the slightly elevated temperature will allow its metabolic rate to function at a rate that will allow for a speedy recovery without undue stress from excessive warmth. Does this really work? The authors use an ICU frequently for when a tarantula appears in dire straights for various reasons. Many such tarantulas do get better. Some die. At this point, the philosophy is that it doesn't do any harm, and it probably does some good."

The authors also say that "Tarantulas are very good at 'playing possum', and a sick tarantula may look dead but merely only be extremely weak. Do not discard a tarantula as dead until it actually begins to smell dead. Where there's life, there's hope!"

 

[Darren]

Spiders don't drink water in the normal sense, follow the detailed instructions that @Sabeth posted, that gives u a step by step guide on how to do it. ICU asap I would recommend. Don't give up yet @mercifulefate3

 

[Sabeth]

I just saw your post about the water balls. I've heard of Ts taking water from these, but not all of them will. A water dish remains the best way to provide Ts with water. If his problem is dehydration, he definitely has a chance in an ICU. However, just to accomodate the dehydration possibility, you might first try getting him to drink. For a water dish, you can use the lid off a food container, like a peanut butter jar. Place the T head-downward in the water dish for at least 45 minutes or as long the T will tolerate it. Watch it carefully to make sure that its abdomen does not contact the water (the lungs are located under the abdomen, so it will not be in any danger with its head contacting the water). If after several hours there is no improvement, go ahead and place the T in the ICU.

 

[Sabeth]

Just some extra tips...if this is a molt, the T will not make it unless it completes the process. There is a way to remove a T from a bad molt surgically, but I have never tried it and since we are not even 100% sure that he's molting, I wouldn't attempt anything that drastic. That doubt, and the lack of a water dish, has me thinking we may have a dehydration case here. If so, his chances are much better than they would be if it were a molting scenario. Again, I'm not positive either way, but as mentioned above it is worth trying what we can. Like Darren said, don't give up yet.

 

[Sabeth]

Moved this thread from Introductions to General Discussions.

 

[Sabeth]

I know this is a lot of work, but it's worth it since there is a chance it could help.

 

[mercifulfate3]

ok so, thanks for all your help, we have gone ahead and moved him into an ICU, how long do you suggest we leave him in there. then change his towels? i read what you put but im not sure what a 3rd stint means? also how long do you think itll take for us to maybe see some improvements?

we really appreciate all your help

 

[mercifulfate3]

also, im on amazon looking for new substrate what do you all suggest, the last ones ive just let the pet shop give me what ever

also what else do you think they like, we have a plastic home a water bowl, and some plastic leaves.

 

[Sabeth]

You're welcome, I really hope everything goes well with your T.

You can leave him in the ICU for up to 2 days before changing the towels.

By stint I mean each 2-day round in the ICU, with the changings in between. So by the time you've replaced the toweling the third time, hopefully there will have been some improvement. That means roughly 6 days. With luck things will take a turn for the better, although unfortunately there's no guarantee.

The best substrate I can recommend is dry shredded coconut fiber. It goes by the name EcoEarth in some stores. If possible, try to get it already processed and bagged so you don't have the hassle of wetting a hard brick and drying it in the sun. You can also use peat moss; a pet store should carry this. Temporarily, if sub isn't immediately available, you could use dry paper toweling on the bottom of the cage until you are able to get the sub. But from the sound of things, you have a few days.